Viral Now or Valuable Long-Term?
January 23, 2026
Your feed is crowded, your time is scarce, and yet the loudest voices keep shouting about AI, reaction videos, and guaranteed six‑figure shortcuts. We went deep on the marketing trends that waste attention—and the practical ways to replace them with content that earns trust and drives real results.
We start by dismantling empty reaction videos and AI‑as‑headline hype. A reaction only works when it adds context, pauses the clip, and teaches something new. “Made with AI” isn’t a benefit; outcomes are. From there, we pull back the curtain on the guru industrial complex: survivorship bias, selective proof, and “80% succeed” claims that sound compelling until you ask who got filtered out. Guarantees can be useful when they protect fit and values, but pressure sales and script‑only pitches erode credibility fast.
We also look at formats and behaviors that quietly manipulate attention—UGC that’s become home shopping with jump cuts, mobile game ads that bait you with failure loops, and design tricks that force rewatches. Then we pivot to what actually works: personalities who teach before they sell, carousels that present ideas clearly, tutorials that start at the pain point, and content marketing that’s the destination instead of the interruption. Through it all, we keep one creative filter in sight: aim for what is true, good, and beautiful, so the work helps people decide—not just click.
If you want marketing that compounds instead of annoys, this conversation lays out the playbook: give value ten times, ask once, and let proof do the persuading. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a detoxed feed, and leave a review telling us the trend you want to retire next.
Reach out if you need help with consistent, story-driven video marketing for your brand, agency, business, association, or nonprofit.
FREE KICKSTART GUIDE: https://letsbackflip.com/guide/
Topics in This Episode
- (00:00) Setting the Stage: Marketing Madness
- (00:50) Reaction Videos Without Value
- (03:26) When Reactions Add Real Context
- (05:54) AI Hype And Clickbait Claims
- (07:08) The Guru Industrial Complex
- (10:10) Survivorship Bias in Success Stories
- (12:10) Guarantees, Refunds, and Selective Proof
- (14:25) AI Budget Cuts and DIY Dreams
- (15:35) Hyper-Specific Products Everywhere
- (17:20) Movie Tie‑Ins And UGC Fatigue
- (20:10) Manipulative Game Ads And Human Urges
- (23:15) Personalities Who Teach Before They Sell
- (26:05) AI’s Convenience Vs Real Connection
- (28:10) Formats That Work: Duets, Carousels, Tutorials
- (31:00) Design Tricks, Loops, And View Harvesting
- (34:50) Content Vs Interruptive Ads
- (37:30) Give Value Ten Times, Then Earn Trust
- (40:35) Scripts, Pressure Sales, And Authenticity
- (45:15) Attention Economy And Ethical Creative
- (49:10) True, Good, Beautiful As A Filter
- (52:50) Humor, Trends, And Closing Notes
Ryan Freng:
Welcome to the Backflip Effect, the podcast that proves there’s a method to the marketing madness. Specifically, a method that involves clever video strategy and a dash of creative mischief. Now don’t be fooled by bland ideas or big budget fluff. Instead, we tackle real client questions and share how we’ve transformed businesses with strategies that actually work. Grab your headphones and join us as we explore the nitty-gritty of turning everyday marketing woes into story-driven success. Let’s get started. So welcome back to the backflip effect, which is also termed so many drinks or lots of drinks. Or I don’t actually have one drink. Today, I’m fresh out. Just one drink between the two of us. That’s the new podcast name. Um today we’re talking about marketing trends that we hate. And I was I thought of this because uh you mentioned one the other day, and then that got my brain firing too. So I I thought we’d bounce back and forth and uh share some of the marketing trends that we see on our feeds that we hate and why we hate them, and maybe what you could do to be more useful or actually provide value. So I’ll I don’t know if you remember.
John Shoemaker:
I do remember, I think I remember what I was talking about. So I could start there because I probably don’t have a ton of uh ideas off the top of my head. I think the one I was talking about that I hate is the reaction videos. Yeah. Um I don’t know, I just I and it’s maybe because I’m old. I’m like, yeah, I’m I’m just I’m ready to embrace it and just be like, yep, I’m old and I don’t get it. But half the time with the reaction video, I’m trying to watch the video. I’m interested in the thing that they’re describe, describe the the video too. All right, so it’s like or the audience, you know, you’re watching your video, and then like there’s my face up front, you know, while this video is playing back here, and I’m just like like what like whatever it is, or sometimes they’re saying things are just like, huh? And I’m just like, I just want to smack those people. I’m like, I’m interested in the video that you’re sharing. Yeah, I’m not interested in your reaction to it. I’m having my own reaction. Is it is it people that you follow or not? No, okay, it’s not people I follow. I’m trying to think okay because I feel like that only works. I’m trying to think if I would even appreciate it from so that’s a good mental experiment, but I’m like I wonder if it works with somebody you know or they provide more content. Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Because the the best part is you were telling me that and I’ve done it before, and you’re like, but but yours is okay, like yours is fine. And I was like, it’s fine, you can hate, you know, the the type of marketing or whatever. I don’t know if I’ve commented on you. It’s probably horrible.
John Shoemaker:
It’s probably terrible.
Ryan Freng:
Uh, but those two things, like whenever I see a random person, I don’t care. Like, I don’t think it’s a terrible way to market, but I just think it’s stupid because I don’t know who this is. And I hate the ones that are just laughing.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Like that that adds nothing for me.
John Shoemaker:
Well, and it’s not just la like some of them are laughing and some of them are like oh yeah, like that’s a good point, huh? Yeah, and you’re like, oh my gosh, like you’re not adding anything. Yeah. So I don’t mind the reaction videos where it’s somebody else’s, it’s it’s their program, and they’re like, We’re gonna take a look at the new music video from whoever, and they watch it and then they pause it, and they’re like, Oh, okay, now that was really cool. You know, this is a collaboration with whoever, right? Like they’re adding content, like you said.
Ryan Freng:
Also different things. I love the setup that you described there. It sounds like an old person, like a talk show or something like that. Because it’s you know, it’s kind of like new ways of communicating things, and the way that that I see that I actually enjoy is I like to see the person bigger and the video smaller, and it’s usually more somebody talking. And then it goes on for less than 10 seconds, and then the person goes and provides context. Yeah, you know, and a lot of these probably the ones that I watch the most are fitness or health related. So somebody’s talking about their diet. And the funny thing is, like I just downloaded a video to do this for uh because it’s it was somebody who it’s like a check-in with your coach, and and they’re pointing out, you know, here’s what I’m eating and I’m not losing weight. They’re like, it’s chicken and it’s rice and it’s salad, and I’m not losing weight. In their hand, they have two cookies, and they’re they’re doing that and saying that. And I thought that was hilarious because you know, it’s a satire, but it’s also true, and I’ve worked with guys and they’ve had a revelation of like, oh, I didn’t realize, you know, the little little bit of creamer that I was putting in had 280 calories or 300 and 300 calories. Oh, it’s my phone. Oh maybe Scott got it. Maybe I gotta turn up the ringing link. Oh, that was an alarm. I did change that. I shrunk it, but I thought it would ring longer. Maybe he got it. Um, so that video, so I I want to do that because it’s it’s a funny video, but then also share that I’ve experienced that with trainees as well. And you know, it’s like kind of like this silent killer or the secret uh secret that’ll get you if you don’t pay attention. So I was gonna do it with that too. You have to tell me if you like it.
John Shoemaker:
So another um the the other trend, the the trend right now, right? I think would be categorized as saying that you made something with AI. You know, made with AI. It’s like like, okay, yes, we’re all getting beat over the head with it, and like AI is everywhere. Like, just stop telling me that it was made with AI. Like, yeah, I think now that that’s a faster moving trend because the the whole space has moved so fast. But I already feel like after a few months, we’re just like, okay, just show me the commercial, just give me the ad. Right.
Ryan Freng:
You know what I hate about that though? I hate the way they describe it. And it’s just the idea of clickbait, and maybe it’s because we hate clickbait and we react so strongly to it, even though we probably click on it, of like what Hollywood doesn’t want you to know. Yeah, like we made this $100,000 commercial for $4,000, and they’re won’t let you have it. Like so dumb. Yeah, and it frustrates me because I don’t know, this is less genuine.
John Shoemaker:
This is why we have all these marketing discussions. Yeah, like well, you’re hiding something from me, I just know it. Yeah, like yeah, yeah, I’m hiding it.
Ryan Freng:
The one of the ones that I hate um is like all the gurus. Like everybody’s an expert at marketing right now. Uh, which I don’t I don’t know that I believe. Like it doesn’t like and feel like in business. It doesn’t feel like everybody’s all of a sudden this guru, but their marketing of themselves as a guru is using all the tips and tricks that they’ve got from other gurus, right? So it’s super tricky. Uh, and I get it, you know. Like, they’re like, oh, well, I can arbitrage and sell this, and you know, so it’s like it’s kind of like a modern, not a maybe a pyramid scheme. Like, I’m just gonna sell this course that I got that helped me sell you on this course, right? You’re like, well, what’s the benefit of all that? You know, but there’s like in the fitness realm, there’s there’s a couple of people, and one of them um, who I’ve talked to in the past, they’re so catchy, but it’s like, can you trust them? You know, it’s like, okay, here’s a testimonial, here’s some stats, here’s a bank account, here’s this. It’s like the same mode over and over with all the gurus, and you’re like, well, either they’re right or they’re really good at lying. Like, is that gonna help me? Like, is that good? I don’t know. I just get so overwhelmed because it’s like friend for gurus, you know, friend guru. Like, I I like my phone over-indexes on the stupid gurus, and I’m like, not interested, not interested. So you also something I don’t.
John Shoemaker:
Um you only get the highlights. Uh, so this is like a slight tangent, but this is uh, you know, some uh friend of mine talking about um uh you know his faith life, right? And like the times that um prayers were answered or whatever, you know. Yeah. And I this is I want to tread lightly here because I think that’s incredibly good to hear those stories. But it is important to recognize that you know, any any person you talk to has like a handful of those stories to tell across their life, right? Their whole life. And this other friend of mine, the point that he likes to make, is that most of life is lived in this like more normal land of you know, it just takes natural things like you know, it’s good to have doctors, like because the miraculous healing doesn’t happen all the time, and it’s good when it does, but like you know, okay, so that’s a tangent, and it gets a little too far in a in this short podcast.
Ryan Freng:
So people should have a few miraculous stories, and then the rest of our lives are lived in between those.
John Shoemaker:
Well, it’s just to understand that most of your life is lived that way.
Ryan Freng:
Is lived what way?
John Shoemaker:
In the normal, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Right. Well, it’s like it’s like the photo album. Like uh, it’s the moments in between those photos that you know you live your life.
John Shoemaker:
So now let’s take that back to the gurus and the marketing. Uh all you’re gonna see on your feed and everywhere that we’re getting this is the successful stories. The hundred thousand other ones that were not successful are not on the feed sharing how they, you know, went to six figures after a few months once they had the machine running or whatever it is. Like, I often wonder that. I’m like, how many other, how many people are attempting this to get me these 10 that are like hitting hitting everywhere?
Ryan Freng:
Well, and that’s where impact and ROI and value is really interesting because this one, Impact Fitness Coaching, I think they have a claim of like people who go through the program, 80% of them make their money back in three months. Uh 30% of them make their money back in one month. So 30% of them are really awesome and get it back in that. And then eight, 80%. So there’s 20% who don’t make it within the first three months. Maybe they don’t make it at all, even just go that route. When you’re looking at that, I’m like, I don’t know, 80%’s good.
John Shoemaker:
I think this I’m not the 20%, you know, that that terrible that footnote text, you know, is usually like, you know, if you follow like all the things or whatever. And so they and they usually make it so insane that it’s like, oh, you didn’t, you know, if you didn’t hit all the follow-ups, all the meetings, all the whatever, right?
Ryan Freng:
So they’re they’re different. And then Alex Hormozy has kind of his coaching program as well. Um, and he shows a lot of uh, you know, the successes and and all those numbers as well. His is a little bit more crazy, and I think he does this with with the business coaching, not just the fitness gym stuff, of like your offer should have like a certain time money back guarantee. Like, if they’re not doing what they should be doing and they’re not happy, like get them out, you know, give them their money back and like don’t have any hard feelings of it because you want the people who are going to be exceptional and going to do all the things and going, you know, going to go the mile, and you want them to be in because they’re gonna be exceptional, they’re gonna succeed. That’s good for you as well. So again, it’s like that altruism and capitalism tied together. So that’s what we need to do. That’s what we need to do.
John Shoemaker:
Is just be like, no, you’re you’re not doing the things that I told you to do.
Ryan Freng:
So well, it’s easier to be, you know, in that realm when there’s just you know a flood of of uh of people coming at you. But as we’ve experienced, AI is kind of throwing a wrench in a lot of marketing where people are uh reducing their marketing services, reducing video because they’re I wouldn’t even say that they’re using AI, but they hope to use AI or they think they can use AI to save money, which they probably can to some degree.
John Shoemaker:
So this is not a marketing thing, marketing trend per se, but it’s a thing that I’ve been keying into more recently. Um I don’t know if we call it a marketing trend. It’s like the in the business world, there are so many uh products that are solving like one very narrow problem, and they solve that thing pretty well, but it’s just amounting in this is more like a materialistic world modern life, you know, first world problem thing of like there’s so much crap.
Ryan Freng:
Like some weird rubber ove that gets dead skin off your elbow.
John Shoemaker:
Oh, you’re just like, okay, yeah, we like well, this this bowl has like a thing to mix this, and then you know, this bowl, this one, you know, is made for holding popcorn, and I’m just like, wait, I don’t now I have five things that I don’t need.
Ryan Freng:
Now they say we have like what over 10,000 things or items, like different items in our homes.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, so that’s not so much a marketing trend as it is a like the speed of technology and business is such that like if you want to be in business, right? And everyone’s like thinking about what’s the next big idea, you know, you’re everyone’s trying to figure out what’s what’s a problem that you know, so we’re and it’s the whole thing where it’s like, well, are we inventing problems to solve with invented things? You know, it’s like this wasn’t a problem. It wasn’t that hard, like it’s not that hard to put eggs in a bowl and whisk it, you know. Yeah, like my grandma used a fork, and I actually like that for some reason. I don’t know why. I prefer it over a whisk. Like, I don’t even need that, you know. But then there’s probably something out there that is like all contained all in one. Put the egg in, it will crack it for you, dump it out, you push this thing on top of it. It probably comes from Japan. Yeah, yeah. So I don’t know if that’s a trend or that’s just like hyper specificity. Yeah. The world we live in is just flooded with like that kind of stuff. And then it obviously is all getting marketed.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, well, I guess you don’t make money if you have one thing that solves multiple problems. Like you need multiple things to sell that can solve multiple problems, which is interesting with us being like you know, a full-stack marketing agency, but people often come in with one problem or they they think they have one problem, but really it’s it’s more than that. And if they don’t see that, then they’re not a good fit, right? Like we’re not gonna be able to convince them, and we don’t want to be in the business of convincing anybody, we want to be in the convincing the business of providing solutions to problems.
John Shoemaker:
I think I might have another one. Um I don’t know that this trend is real recent. Do you have others that you dislike? Um, you can go ahead. Okay, so I’ll think. I think the reason it’s in my mind is because Superman just came out. Um I don’t love the cheesy trend of like slamming the recent movie together with fill in the blank product. Like there’s it’s just like like Superman, here’s a nerf ball that was like just I don’t know. Like to me, that one is feels a little cheesy and cheap. It’s just like you didn’t there’s not a lot of creative that went into that.
Ryan Freng:
You just no, but that’s maybe the science of it. Like that pays. Yeah, like I I know Superman and Fortnite um was a huge hit. Uh like when they had Star Wars, one of the shows came out. Uh Darth Vader was in there, and you know, they do stuff like that, the crossovers, and then you could get your Funko Pop, Fortnite, Superman. That’s like three Superman, Fortnite, Funko Pop, dolls, like yeah. I guess that’s just merchandising, though. I don’t know, not a s maybe not a social media trend, but there’s probably a social media analog of like, oh, I’m okay. Um UGC user generated content. I kind of hate these ads. Uh I like them when they were fledgling and they were new because it was creative and authentic.
John Shoemaker:
So like you’re talking to Ritos or whatever.
Ryan Freng:
Um, just like, okay, let’s see. You know, okay. So, man, you know, like I’m always drinking water, but you know, sometimes I want to mix my supplements in, and it’s kind of dumb to do it in a in a glass, and I don’t even think I have a glass or a fork or a whisk. You know, like whisks, I don’t have a fork. So I actually picked up one of these blender bottles, which has uh it’s got a little metal ball in there, actually, that when you shake it, it’ll mix up, which is pretty awesome. So I’m loving on this blender bottle because it helps me with supplement, blah blah blah. Click down below to get yours, uh code, you know. Um, so everyone creating product, like I liked it maybe when it was more narrow or more niche or more creative now, and this is maybe more on TikTok, which I rarely visit. It’s like so much of that content is just somebody holding a product and talking about a product. It’s just it’s become the home shopping network.
unknown:
Yeah.
John Shoemaker:
So why is that? Why are we why are people doing that? Like because they get paid. So you know, some of them, right? That’s the highlight reel again, you know, of like there are some people getting paid, and there’s how many hundreds of thousands of people trying to do that, yeah, you know, chasing it, not getting paid much, you know, or anything. Um maybe that’s I I’m just you know thinking, musing and opining about the marketing issues as well, which is like we’re just seeing all of that, like everybody’s like chasing, you know, chasing a quick dollar, chasing a way to like I get this like sidestream, you know, of income if I you know crank out enough product or whatever and just keep keep it up. You know, that’s what like the that’s what the gurus tell us, like you gotta just keep putting content out there and eventually it’ll catch on. And like content I like, entertainment content I like, but which is interesting because we talked about that idea.
Ryan Freng:
Like Gary V talks about it, like how much content are you putting out? Yeah, you gotta 10x that. Yeah, and it’s not that you’re just 10xing your content, it’s that you’re putting out useful content, yeah, you know, and and a lot of useful content is the idea. And like there’s a lot of people not doing that, even though they’re like, Well, I did the thing, I put out the content. Yeah, well, you’re not doing the it in the useful way that the influencer figured out. How to do, you know, they missed that key component to communicate to you.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
So there’s a lot of people. I mean, we’ve probably found ourselves as well, like putting out content, and we’re like, is this useful? Which is why we like switch this podcast. Yeah. I love talking to random people, but at the end of the day, we’re like, is this the most useful thing? Like, do people care if we talk to people? I mean, other businesses maybe found it delightful, but like, does anybody else?
John Shoemaker:
Yeah. Do people want a few friends? I mean, that maybe that’s you know, important for people to understand. If like the so here’s a trend, you know, we’re we’re doing the trend of like podcasting and talking and whatever. Um, the reason that we’re doing it this way is to make it easier to quickly communicate ideas that we are thinking about all the time. Um, we need to decrease the amount of time that it takes us to generate this content. So then we put it out there. We hope it’s valuable for business owners and marketers who are looking at it, and then we can convert all of this just conversation into text, right? And then then that helps our website and it helps our you know uh Google ranking and all that kind of stuff.
Ryan Freng:
The pillar content and then cascading down. Yeah. What else? Is there anything you don’t like, Luke? Marketing trends that annoy you. You can you can share it. I’ll repeat.
Luke Kolarsky:
Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, man in this ad.
John Shoemaker:
I know what you’re getting at. So I think what he’s referring to is like well, maybe there’s different ones, but there’s like a mobile game that’ll come up, uh-huh, and you’re just like watching probably not the person’s face, but you’re just like watching a user play it and like fail at this like oh my gosh, and you’re like, you moron. Fail at this do it, let me click. Yeah, yeah. And I and yeah, those are is that what you’re correct?
Luke Kolarsky:
Yeah, they’re kind of describing what they’re being like, oh, we could do this, and they’re just like monotello enthusiasm in their watch, and it’s like you just you’re making a buck off it, but you don’t care how much yeah, yeah, people don’t care.
Ryan Freng:
I mean, that’s that’s the whole UGC content to me as well. So I I’d connect that. And man, those stupid game ads are so effective. Like I read um manga manwa, Korean manga on my phone. Um, if your wife doesn’t know about that yet, get her into uh what’s it called? We she’s got enough things that she already has enough reasons to ignore me. Webtoon’s a cool app, you can read the the anime. Um, but in order to watch it, you either have to have a subscription or watch ads. So I’ll just watch an ad and set it down. But it’s these mobile games where it’s like, okay, you’re this gunner and the zombie hordes are coming at you and you’re shooting them, and then they keep doing stupid stuff, and you’re like, no, I could do this so much better. And that mental trick, I’ve never downloaded one of these games, but it takes everything I can, everything in my being, not to download it and show them that I can do it better. Like there’s something so human about wanting to fix, or maybe it’s just masculine, wanting to fix or be like, oh, let me show you how to do this. You’re like a you’re a moron.
John Shoemaker:
You know, it reminds me of uh it’s not a marketing trend that I hate, it’s one that I really enjoyed. And this is a specific one, so I don’t know if it’s a trend anymore, but um the the video where they found a Justin Bieber look-alike, and then they were like trying to figure out how to make a video go viral. Okay. And like they’re like, Well, there’s a couple different ways we could go with it, and like we could have him doing something really sweet, like helping like this old lady across this the what they decided to do. They’re like, What would make people enraged, kind of like playing a game really poorly, yeah, is like they had him sit on a park bench and eat a burrito sideways, yeah, and just like take photos of it and get video and stuff, and then like I remember that that’s sent that off to some like e entertainment news sites to try to get it to pick up, and it did pick up and it just went nuts. Oh my gosh, so hilarious! But yeah, they were keying in on that thing. Like, what would just make people like the unsettling or yeah, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
You’re like, oh my, how could you eat a burrito? Like, yeah. So I kind of hate it, but it just works. So I totally understand that. What else? So I’m not much on TikTok these days. Like, I’ll be on there a little bit to post and interact, but um TikTok is so different than Instagram, and now they’re so full of ads. And so, like, you get brain rot video games, I get gurus. What do you what do you get advertised?
John Shoemaker:
Um I I’d have to think about it a little bit. Um a lot of uh a lot of solar and battery stuff I get because I just really enjoy that. I’m usually trying to DIY.
Ryan Freng:
It’s probably not too advanced in their marketing techniques. No, I don’t imagine.
John Shoemaker:
And the most the most successful are um well, okay, I get multiple site, so I get uh companies. There there are um construction companies, so the most sophisticated marketing and advertising in the construction world is definitely coming from solar because they’re trying to like tackle government incentives, uh so they’re gonna make you a real an offer you can’t refuse. Basically, you’re just gonna sign up and there’s no money out of pocket. You’re just gonna switch from your your utility cost and to paying back the loan on that thing.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah. They were telling me this. I’m like, no, I was like, it doesn’t work.
John Shoemaker:
It is, it is how it works, it actually does work, but it’s just that they’re getting you into a loan that you’ll be paying over the course of 20 years or whatever it is, and then you’re gonna hope that your solar panels outlive that 20-year term, otherwise you’re gonna have to buy new ones at the end of when you just finish paying the loan, and then your solar panels won’t be working anymore. Yeah, right.
Ryan Freng:
So that that’s the business. And we live in the Midwest and we don’t have a lot of solar time, so yeah, because there’s a kid who came to my door and he’s like, Yeah, just no no additional cost to you. I’m like, nah, too good to be true.
John Shoemaker:
Yep, yeah. Well, it yeah, there are parts that are not true or or too good to be true about it, but um so I get that, and then but then there are also some personalities. So, like there’s a guy named Will Will Prose or whatever, so he’s a personality. Um, he is so he’s a he’s a you know, success story in my book. Like, he is infectious in his love of electronics and teaching electronics, and he’s and he like makes you feel like he’s so positive. He’s a super young guy, lives in uh Vegas, um, and he has all these panels and he does reviews on them, he reviews um batteries and he reviews systems, he builds DIY systems. So, what’s he selling? Uh just his brand, probably. Okay, you know, right? Like subscribers on his YouTube channel. And I I think he has affiliate links for some of the things, you know, right? But it’s not it’s not annoying, in my opinion. He’s not like pushing it, he’s reviewing them, and then he’s like teaching people about uh electronics and about you know solar. I don’t know.
Ryan Freng:
So now we’re switching to marketing trends we love. Yeah, yeah. Effective, uh effective personalities. Well, and that’s that’s where I think I’m just joking, uh, switching, but the acknowledgement that like celebrity so far won’t be replaced by AI. Like it’s so much easier and cheaper to have an influencer than to try to figure out how to make it with AI because it takes you know dozens of thousands of dollars, or thousands of dollars to try to create something similar. And we love the idea of people and celebrity. And certainly at some point you could create some digital avatar celebrity thing, we’re not there, but there is just something so charming about the uniqueness of this or authenticity of this person.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah. So real quick before I switch to thinking about the things that I love. One of the things with AI that I think is gonna be tricky. Um, it’s gonna be a little bit of a problem. So there was a there was the uh culzy girl watching a video. Um there was the uh that culchi trading uh ad that was made by AI. I thought it was really fun. I enjoyed the video and the videos, they were funny, and it was just like written well enough that I was entertained. Yeah. And I didn’t mind that it was AI and it was it wasn’t bad AI, though. And the theme video was really good. And and the writing was really well done.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
John Shoemaker:
Like you had to have the right punchline. The punchline was the world’s gone crazy. Well, yeah, because of AI and because and also people are crazy and whatever, you know. Yeah, so the world’s gone crazy, trade it. That one was great. Um I’ve had this thought about you’ve maybe seen the meme where someone’s like, Oh, I need to send an email to my supervisor. Uh, and then they use AI and they’re like, make this, you know, seem like professional and make it a little bit longer. And then the supervisor is getting the email and he’s like, summarize this email for me in like a more casual tone, you know. Oh, that’s great. And like, how funny. So I’m like, there’s something there that is like a fundamental truth of like the the potential problems of AI, like, oh, just make this AI, it’ll make it easier and faster. Yeah, yeah. But then we’re watching it, we’re like, this seems like it was made easier and faster, and I’m not entertained, or I’m not, yeah, you know, like we’re like really like we were desiring the real connection anyway. Yeah, and you know, like you made the AI, and then we use AI to like convert it back to something that was right.
Ryan Freng:
I mean, and and that’s fascinating to me too, and a whole different topic of like, can we just have like an AI agent and I can tell that agent what to do, and then it connects with your AI agent, you know, kind of like an assistant, as opposed to us taking that plebeian step of saying, make this more professional and longer, and then you do the opposite. Yeah, um, okay. So here’s an example of something that I like. So I’m fine with us two uh doing that, but it’s interesting because it takes the one thing you hate, which is somebody watching somebody else. Uh so this this fitness lady is watching somebody else make some food, and then she’s gonna make it. I love this type of video because when I see somebody make something, I’m like, yeah, maybe, maybe it’s good. Maybe you’re just advertising something to me. When a second person watches it and then makes it, that’s when I’m like, oh well, that’s legit. Like, I trust this second person. Uh-huh. Like it’s such a tricky marketing thing that’s hilarious that for whatever reason I just trust the second person.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
It’s like uh uh, I don’t know, second secondary bias or something. Like the first one, you’re trying to sell me something. Second one, oh, you’re actually a real person who’s testing this.
John Shoemaker:
There’s something there too about I don’t that’s funny because I I think I understand what you’re getting at. And they’re always like, oh, it’s actually really good. And you’ve actually trained yourself to do that, to be skeptical of the first one. Right. Most people aren’t skeptical of that one. They’re like, Well, I saw this thing, and you’re like, You’ve never researched it before, you’ve never looked into it. Somebody that you don’t even know presented it, and you’re like, Oh, yep, this is the thing. Yeah. Clearly, seed oils. Seed oils are why I’m fat. Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
That’s why.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
I’m or insert any weird fitness thing here. Yeah. Or health. Yeah, that’s true. I do like just because I’m scrolling and I’m seeing things that are like, I love carousels. I don’t know why. You’re like, okay, hit me with the hook. Well, all right. Now I can read the next thing.
John Shoemaker:
It’s simple. Now we can read the next thing. They’re nice and they’re simple. And if you want to communicate, so like I’m all in on video, except for like certain tutorials just drive me nuts. I’m like, I don’t need some how to do something on your computer. It’s like, okay, start it up, enter your username. Like, I’m past that. Like, how do I just and if you can’t skip it on social? Yeah, yeah. You’re like, I just want the bullet points, or I just want a carousel or whatever. Right. Carousels aren’t usually tutorial based or whatever, but just yeah, like people need to understand the format what’s valuable. Um anyway.
Ryan Freng:
I’ve got one that I hate, uh, but it’s so effective. So that Maria, can you like make a list of like hate, hate hate but effective, like but not effective, like, like it’s gonna affect this is it’s gonna be so disorganized.
John Shoemaker:
You’re gonna have to go back and forth between like like there’s gonna be a lot of author intrusion here.
Ryan Freng:
There’ll be a list, and then that list is gonna be like, wait, maybe this goes over here, and then so uh this of like a video with like text that is like so stupid to read, it’s so dumbly formatted. I hate it, but it’s so effective. Uh like people will sit there and read it, and it’s an eight-second clip or something like that, and it loops, which is good for the algorithm. So it’s like scientifically tricky and works to get you views, and then that gets shared out more. So it’s very effective, but it’s like people use the worst fonts, and it’s so dumb. And then I read it and I’m like, cool, now I wasted my time.
John Shoemaker:
Do I mean this is like a thing? Uh okay. So I just saw. Sorry, this is gonna be a slightly separate thought, but I’ll connect it back. Like, like hey, so I just saw um Sam and Nico, Corridor Digital, they did a can we teach our moms to identify AI video? That’s really fun.
Ryan Freng:
I love that YouTube, yeah.
John Shoemaker:
And shared that. Um so that’s important and that’s good with AI, but not just AI, but even marketing. So this is my connection back is like, do people realize that? Do you realize that that video that’s really annoying and you’re trying to like read the thing and you’ve got to like refresh it multiple times and even like return it back if it went down to the next one? That that was on purpose to like harvest your views to like boost the video further, right? I’m like people don’t know that stuff, and that that’s again like with marketing. I’m like, man, we are toast. Like we work in marketing, and I’m like, I feel like every day I’m having an existential crisis. I’m like, yeah, we’re manipulating people’s perceptions and minds and whatever, and people don’t understand, don’t realize it. Like, my wife will watch uh some video that’s just going on and on and on, and I’m like, nope, no, I for me, I’m like, no, I’m not doing this. I know what we’re doing. Like, I’m gonna wait forever, like waiting for the punchline of this. Right. Usually it’s selling something, right? You know, and you just like, and I’m like, faster, faster, get out of here. No way, I don’t want to do that. She’ll just like keep going, and I’m like, this isn’t going anywhere.
Ryan Freng:
You realize that yeah, but the good ones will keep you there even though you know that. Yeah, right.
John Shoemaker:
Well, that’s like the Harman brothers who keep talking about, and there’s another one I think Chamber Media is the other one.
Ryan Freng:
Sure, chamber by name, that are entertaining.
John Shoemaker:
They’re they’re comedic and entertaining throughout. So I know what they’re doing, but I also like, well, I’m entertained and sit here and watch this whole thing.
Ryan Freng:
Uh, simple quotes, I love this is iron sharpens iron. You can’t be sharp hanging around butter knife MF. MF. Mother. Uh, but it it’s like a breath of fresh air, you know, to be undesigned essentially. Um, and usually they’re pretty clever. I replaced my sales calls with a simple reward video, and 61 new coaching clients later, I’m not going back. Now I hate this because it took my love of the uh the quote right here, yeah, and now it’s a guru video, and I don’t want a guru video. Like, get out of here, Eric Hoffman.
John Shoemaker:
Oh, I can’t remember. Um, I can’t remember what it was. There is a trend like that that got me a couple times recently. Um, it was something like that, where it’s like, um, oh, that’s a that’s a great quote, or that’s you know, some really good piece of content, and then just like a pretty straight up hard sale, you know, right after that. I forget what that was. Uh you know, we I mentioned the one solar guy on YouTube, the other ones that I do really enjoy. I mean, is this just an obvious thing? Is again like just the personalities uh who are like they are selling things. I think it’s the one I think I I tolerate the ones that are selling things secondarily more like a seller brand. Well, like the hunting public is a channel that I follow. Yeah I love you know they’re they’re hunters, but they are like lots of teaching content. So they’re like they want other people to enjoy this hobby that they enjoy, and then they do sell things, you know. Some they like sell a few things in their own store, and then sometimes like they’ll mention some oh, this is sponsored by whatever archery, or we, you know, oh, we designed this bow with this group or whatever, you know.
Ryan Freng:
But it’s just like so the the primary focus or primary thing that they’re doing is content creation, yeah, or sharing sharing something.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, I think so.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, and like you described, secondarily, yeah, there’s products that are for sale, or you can buy brand stuff, or this is something we like, and there’s an affiliate code, but that’s not always the sell in your face.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, other yeah, I mean, we talk about this a lot, and and it’s the the reason content marketing is can be so success so successful is because when you put out like a commercial, usually what you’re doing is you’re interrupting somebody. You’re interrupting what they were trying to do or trying to consume to put your thing in front of them and then hoping that they’re not so annoyed that they ignore it or blow past and they actually consider it. Whereas like content marketing is like this is the this is the reason I’m here, and then I’m more you know, I’m more open to the thing you’re trying to sell or whatever. And the more and the more confident that people are in that, the less annoying it is. When they’re just like, hey. There’s affiliate links, but you can buy it anywhere, you know, right? Like they’re like, I’m not like dying and begging for you. I’m just confident. I’m like, yeah, you know what I’m doing. You know how I make money doing this.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, not being sweaty about the sale. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s it’s super interesting. And again, like so Alex Hormosy talks about content, and it used to be like, you know, give nine times and ask one time. He eventually changed it to just like give ten times. Just give, give, give, give, give. And then when they want something that you’re talking about, they’ll they’ll come to you, which is fascinating, you know, because there’s still some of the gurus, I don’t know, like Dan Kennedy or um what’s a click funnel guy? Um do I have his book here? No. What’s his name? ClickFunnel. Mr. Clicks. Ben, no, Ben, no. Brant Brandson? Brandelson. Dan Daniel Brandelson. Brandt? Hang on, let me. Brant Brandelson. Let me sound less like a moron.
John Shoemaker:
Bran. Clickkelson.
Ryan Freng:
Click funnelson. Russell Brunson.
John Shoemaker:
There it is.
Ryan Freng:
You’re close. So Russell Brunson has click funnels. Um I guess one thing that annoys me is like people that kind of have the script for the Instagram to click funnel type of sale, which I understand the psychology works and you know, it works, it works, it works. But I see it and because I know it, I’m like, no, yeah, I don’t want your stupid thing.
John Shoemaker:
I I think after being in the marketing, you know, video and marketing industry for coming up on where I mean, what are we at? 17, 18 years. Yeah. 18? Well, two decades pretty soon. Yeah. I think I’m just I can hear a sales pitch a million miles away. And I just don’t want it. I’m just like, I I’m attracted to things that are genuine and authentic. If it’s a real person, I’m already, and if they have like a product, I know they have a product. Like you don’t need to bash me over the head with that. I do, I am interested in getting to know more about that person or whatever. I’m trying to think of like, am I like talking backwards here about like the people who are like not interested in marketing? Like, no, what do you mean other clients from our other podcasts who are like, well, I’m not sure if I get the you know the value of that. I’m like, Oh, yeah, I don’t see value in you doing really crappy salesy stuff either. I’m interested in introducing you and your brand to more of the people that would be interested in that. In the best way possible. In the best way. Creative marketing, yeah. Yeah. So I think that’s just what it is is like I don’t, I just don’t like I hear a sales pitch and I’m I’ll just stop people. I’m like, I know where we’re going with this. Can it like talk to me like a human? Like, I don’t want to.
Ryan Freng:
Well, that that was like my experience with the um the kid who was talking about the solar stuff. I’m like, all right, so your wife tells me that you’re interested in this, and one of our uh adjusters or whatever will be out here tomorrow, and they’re super busy. So, you know, what time works for you? I think I’ve got a little bit of time between the four and five, and I was like, what are we talking about?
John Shoemaker:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
And then he’d give me his little sales pitch, and I was like, nah, it sounds too good to be true. And I was like, what’s the downside? And he’s like, No downside, da da da. And I’m like, just not into it because I’m not having a real conversation with him. I’m talking to a script.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
And it I think it’s fine, you know, it’s fine and proper to have a script that you start with, but you’re a human person. So like be a human person and be relatable.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
And the script may frame how the discussion goes, but it’s the personableness and the relatableness and the authenticity, I think, that is gonna create that trust. Because if you don’t trust, you know, then you’re not going, like, I’m not gonna make the bridge to, yeah, I need that thing, or our client’s not gonna make the bridge to, yeah, there is an ROI on video, like we were talking about in the last episode.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah. And furthermore, it’s like I lose trust if I ask a question and I don’t get a human response back. I I get a scripted sales response back. Right. Like, yeah, yeah, I know that’s what you’re supposed to say next, but I actually have a question. Yeah. You’re like, okay, we’re you’re not gonna do it.
Ryan Freng:
You’re not gonna okay. And then the pressure of like, and and this is maybe more like windows salesman.
unknown:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Like, oh, the deal right now, and like you gotta, you gotta sign up right now, otherwise the deal’s going away. And like, I want to do like the the anti-pressure. And I get it, I get, I get like psychologically the pressure sale works, but like it’s yucky. I don’t want to do it. Like, I want to be like, hey, do you want to come to this Willy Wonka Wonderland and Hawaii with us? Like, because that’s where we’re going. Like, if you don’t want that, that’s cool.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, these are, you know, I think everyone just should, yeah, like don’t ever buy the pressure sale. I’m anytime that happens with me, like cars, uh window, you know, home repair type stuff, whatever, when they’re like, you know, today this is the price I can offer you. I’m like, if if it’s legit, you’ll offer me that price tomorrow. Yeah, like I’m not buying today, so you’re going home, yeah, and it I’m gonna think about it. And if I call back in a week, I guarantee somebody at the office there will give me this price, yeah, or a better one.
unknown:
Yeah.
John Shoemaker:
So like just don’t ever do that. Don’t buy the high pressure sales.
Ryan Freng:
And that’s what I told the solar guy. I was like, can I get your name? Because like if if I’m interested in calling them, I want to, you know, let them know that I don’t know, Kyler, like Garen, like some kind of weird Gen Zier or whatever name. Uh I want to I want to let them know that you talk to me because like this has been mostly enjoyable. I probably said this has been enjoyable. Um, but yeah, I was like, like you, I’m like, hey, I get it. Or like when I have these phone calls with like I have talked to random gurus or fitness people, and I’m like, I get just so you know, I get it. I’m probably gonna be your worst lead, and I could be a good one too.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
But you know, just try to set their expectations of like, I get it. I, you know, I know how the sausage is made, I know what this is. Um, and actually, this is to the the fitness one. The one woman I was talking to, Samantha, she was awesome. I think she just was providing value. Just like, hey, here’s this, here’s that. Well, what do you want to do with this? How do you want to do that? Yeah, yeah, we’ve helped people in this way and this way and that blah, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, like, are you interested in making that change and you know, going there or doing this? And then when I told her no, she’s like, okay, um, you know, like future in a month, like, let’s recap or re-reconnect, blah, blah, blah. In the meantime, if anything comes up, text me. I’m happy to provide, you know, any feedback or whatever. So she like, no pressure, just asked a lot of questions and then provided value. And I was like, that’s fantastic. So she has endeared the organization to me. And I was like, so are you a coach? And she’s like, nope. I was like, I was like, I would have you as a coach. She’s like, no, they’ve got better coaches. I was like, so I was thinking about that. I was like, I want to see some of these better coaches, I want to talk to some of these better coaches, because you know, if you’re selling me on somebody else, that’s interesting. Um trends we like, trends we don’t, and all the learnings in between. I had one, but then you said Samantha, and I can’t remember something I like, something I don’t. I mean, being away from my phone, being away from social media, I like that. Yeah. Like the brain slows down, and like even having this conversation.
John Shoemaker:
I was uh so I’m reading this book called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Oh yeah. And uh it’s taking me a long time to get there. I’m not hurting. Yeah, you’re not going fast. Um it’s understandable. But yeah, I hit on, you know, right now he’s talking about the Sabbath. So it’s a it’s a you know, just set in the modern world, you know, thing, but it also is, you know, the Christian worldview as well, um, that he’s bringing into it. And uh he’s talking about the Sabbath and talking about just the need to slow down and yeah, to reset, just like we’re being bombarded with like so much. Um there’s a I mean that’s just that’s a trend I hate. It’s just like that that this is life, is just like it’s the attention economy, right? You know, it’s like everybody is like fighting for the attention, you know, our attention for our customers’ attention. That is a not I’m not trying to make a pun. I’m just trying to now I’m stuck in it, I can’t get away from it. That is the tension um of the attention economy. It’s not a pun, it’s just uh alliteration I wasn’t trying to make. Um the tension of living in it too, and like this is the product that we’re offering, and like knowing that there’s a certain amount of it that is unhealthy for people, yeah. Uh, and we’re making more of that and contributing to it, you know.
Ryan Freng:
But I think that’s why we approach it with this, you know, this Catholic philosophy or perspective of true, good and beautiful. Yeah. So we’re advertising a construction fan, we’re a funeral home. I mean, funeral home kind of makes a little more sense. Um, trying to think of like other just random brands, uh, a chair, right? You know, a folding chair for hiking. Try to approach it in in a way that is true, good and beautiful, that is authentic, that calls to the heart, that raises the mind, um, and is not just brain rot or Italian brain rot, as the kids call it.
John Shoemaker:
Um not aware of that trend.
Ryan Freng:
Italian brain rot. So there’s like, what are what are some of those like it’s not skibbity, but like videos that’s like Italian brain rot.
Luke Kolarsky:
Um I don’t know if if we’re in like Italian Spider-Man, but I don’t even know what that is.
Ryan Freng:
And and there’s like two videos, and like they came into Fortnite somehow, like the music where you like shoot somebody and then all of a sudden they turn into like a giant pickle and start dancing, and they’re like, oh, that’s Italian brain rot.
John Shoemaker:
And I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m so far removed from yeah, like this is probably a slur that we shouldn’t be, yeah, yeah. Like, why do we end up with a nationality attached to it? Like, yeah. When you have to ask your kids, like, what’s that mean?
Ryan Freng:
That’s how you know you’re old. Um so what was the trend that I liked? Did I say a trend?
John Shoemaker:
I don’t I don’t know.
Ryan Freng:
Italian brain rot. I think my brain is rotting in an Italian way right now. So that means I don’t know. Too much parmesan. Things we don’t like. I was gonna wrap it up. I don’t even know where where we went. There we go. We did it. That’s how old I am. My brain just stops working. That’s why you gotta take the creatine. This is uh the creatine’s good for your brain.
John Shoemaker:
This is the danger of uh all these trends, good and bad, or the the the trends we like and we don’t like are all uh stealing our attention.
Ryan Freng:
That’s where I was going with like us creating content and being true, good and beautiful, right? So we’re trying to create content that you know calls to the heart, inspires the mind, all in this realm of marketing. Um, like mercenary art, we kind of say as well. So hopefully we’re not adding to the noise, but maybe providing clarity in the noise, right? Because there’s lots of content creators out there, there’s lots of marketing agencies out there that just add to the noise. And I think our perspective, like we really try to add clarity in the noise.
John Shoemaker:
There’s a song by switchfoot from all the way back in like probably either late 90s or early 2000s, and the refrain is if we’re adding to the noise, turn off this song. Which is a bold, you know, that’s and that that’s our motto. That’s like the adding to the noise, turn off this song. Yeah, that’s I think that is a perspective that we like to bring, is like, yeah, if we’re if we’re adding to the noise, like turn it off. Uh to whatever extent we’re being helpful, that’s what we’re aiming for. But like, yeah, it’s I don’t know. We’re we’re heading into this is just old phrase old person phrases more and more, I’m gonna say it, but like we’re like heading into an area of technology and stuff that is very different, you know. It’s always been on this like wild trend, you know, since the beginning of computers or whatever, you know, like um, and it’s people have been saying the same thing, so this isn’t all that different than what people have been saying about technology all along, but just like what have they been saying about technology? What do you mean? Just just that it is like how fundamental it’s gonna change life, and how like um I mean that’s just technology in general, right? And how important it is to like um keep balance, you know, whatever.
Ryan Freng:
Do you think people have the same discussion about like the wheel? Right? Oh no, so so they’re like, well, now you’re gonna be able to travel all over the lands, like you can travel over the hill and down into the valley, and your life will be different forever.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You’re just moving around at this hurried pace. Yeah, you got a cow or you got a horse dragging you around at you know 10 times the speed.
Ryan Freng:
How are you gonna have any time to chase buffalo off of cliff? Yeah, cliffs, you know, if you’re just driving your circle everywhere.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, ideal. I haven’t chased one buffalo off a cliff.
Ryan Freng:
See? Remember the good old days when we could chase buffalo off cliffs? Then they invented the wheel. All right. Then with that, like, subscribe, follow. Yeah, click the affiliate links below.
John Shoemaker:
Yep, that sounds like Italian seasoning. What was it?
Ryan Freng:
Italian brain rot. Your kids have probably heard of that. Probably not.
John Shoemaker:
They’re homeschooled.
