065 – Apache Danforth – Public Relations & Project Manager at Perodigm Media

In this Happy Hour podcast, we’re chatting with Apache Danforth about public relations and project management.


  • (6:05) Who is Apache Danforth?
  • (10:52) Sovereign nations.
  • (13:34) Growing up on a reservation.
  • (16:26) Apache’s traditional name.
  • (20:10) Family trees.
  • (29:53) Pow wows.
  • (42:52) How do you fix historical injustices?
  • (45:17) Human trafficking.
  • (54:49) Backflip’s human trafficking awareness work.
  • (1:11:51) What was it like for Apache to work on a project so focused on human trafficking?
  • (1:14:42) Meaningful projects.
  • (1:24:41) Two truths and a lie.


Ryan Freng 3:00
Oh, hello there. I’m Ryan, co creative director here at backflip. And joining me as always, is John Shoemaker say Hey, John.

John Shoemaker 3:09
Hey, some some happened to your personality.

Ryan Freng 3:14
Did you like that different intro? I was like, you know, just drinking a cup of coffee and I’m like, Oh, hey.

John Shoemaker 3:21
Here’s a cup of coffee to

Ryan Freng 3:26
Hello and welcome back to another backflip. Happy Hour. I’m Ryan Freng. co creative director here at backflip. And joining me as always, is John Shoemaker. Say Hey, John. Hey, John, C. C. There we go. We got into it. We’re so good at this. We’d like to start the happy hour off by talking about what we’re drinking. Because that’s one of the reasons we do these to talk to interesting peoples the first reason also today drink is reason number two. What do you got? I was showing my drink but what do you got?

John Shoemaker 3:55
All right, I have the coffee. There’s a little bit left in there. went and found this in the kitchen. Cacti cacti Bay. Agave spiked seltzer. What does that mean? That means probably there’s tequila.

Ryan Freng 4:15
Or the or the agave sugar. Yeah. Dope and you can taste it and I’m sure it’ll taste amazing. Yeah, I was gonna do a tequila drink. But I noticed that we have this by this coconut pineapple buy in the fridge and I haven’t had one of these in a while. Yeah, I saw you grab it. And I added some rum to it. And I made like the perfect low calorie, like Island drink little I don’t know. rum, pineapple coconut, which is amazing. So that’s that’s what I get here. And then of course, I’ve got to sparkling waters, water, coffee, want to stay hydrated. I have a ridiculous amount of things. But that’s not why we’re here. Are we here to hang out with cool, interesting people? So we’re gonna go ahead and bring Apache in. Welcome Apache to the show.

Apache Danforth 5:09
Hi, guys. Hi. Thanks for having me.

Ryan Freng 5:12
Yeah, how you doing?

Apache Danforth 5:14
I’m good. Pretty good. Can’t complain. I mean, I could complain. But what? What did with that do? Yeah,

Ryan Freng 5:21
I mean, we’re here for you if you do what?

Apache Danforth 5:24
makes for good? Content, right?

Ryan Freng 5:27
Yeah, exactly. No. So it’s so great to have you on. We’ve been chatting a little bit before, but we’ll just kind of jump back into it like we have been, I did want to read, you have a really cool, like byline that we have, you know, a little bio that we added. So I’m gonna read that real quick. And I’ll let you kind of take it away, you can share what you’re enjoying as a drink right now and tell us a little bit about yourself. So here’s, here’s what we got. Apache Dan fourth is of the wolf clan, and a citizen of the United Nation in Wisconsin. Apache is an independent consultant, who has recently begun working with paradigm design studio, who we work a lot with, to assist with public relations and project management. Yeah, there’s that swag shirt, Wisconsin Human Trafficking Prevention Training and campaign. Previously, she was honored to hold the role of tribal tourism development director for Native American tourism of Wisconsin, NATO, where she worked closely with Great Lakes, inter tribal council, the 11 sovereign nations in native Wisconsin, and tribal leaders. Together, they work to develop market and promote Native Tourism initiatives in a manner respectful of our cultures, values, and beliefs. That’s pretty good.

Apache Danforth 6:43
That sounds like me.

Ryan Freng 6:45
Yeah, that’s super legit. Yeah, no,

Apache Danforth 6:47
now the right person.

Ryan Freng 6:49
Yeah. Tell us about yourself, give us the real dish.

Apache Danforth 6:51
So. So in Oneida, my name is Yabba when I was still, and that means she speaks good words. And that was given to me by my grandmother. And she’s an interesting story herself, that should maybe come up later, but she lived to be 103. So she’s got a Yeah. So it’s kind of the stock, you know, we come from so. And yeah, like you said, I’m working with paradigm. And my background is public relations, communications, project management, just happy to have an opportunity to use my expertise. And I know live this is not a, you know, a great time for everybody. Not everybody was able to, you know, keep up, keep their employment and career going. So I’m just thankful to be able to work on a project that I can use my expertise, and it’s so meaningful, and is going to have an impact on the people who live in Wisconsin.

Ryan Freng 7:53
Yeah, that’s awesome. And I have the note here to have your native name, but I was not going to try that. No. She speaks good words. That’s That’s amazing. Like, yeah, because that’s so kind of what you do. Was that given to you early on, or later,

Apache Danforth 8:10
that’s an interesting story. Because my my I, and it’s still typically happen in our culture. And I don’t it was something more along than my mom’s kind of wishes for me to transition from being a young, a young girl to a woman, a young woman. But my first one, that name was given to me by grace, Elijah and that, and we didn’t, we didn’t have in our community. We didn’t have our, we call it our fire. And we didn’t have that in our community. And basically, that’s our ceremonies. And all the ceremonies that we conduct throughout that night is conduct throughout the year. Well, we’ve there are all nighters also in near London, Ontario, and New York as well. Upstate New York, so that’s where we migrated from here to the Green Bay Area.

Ryan Freng 8:59
Oh, sure. Yeah,

Apache Danforth 9:00
yeah. Yeah. So um, so we didn’t have our culture in our ways. We had our language and we’re just barely surviving and hanging, you know, hanging on to our language. And we’ve, we connect it with the Oneidas in Canada, and they taught us they began to help us bring our those ways back to our community. I’m gonna take a drink.

John Shoemaker 9:23
Yeah. Oh,

Ryan Freng 9:24
yeah. What do you got there? That’s super fancy.

Apache Danforth 9:27
So this is a iced coffee. And it’s a Keto iced coffee. So it’s high in healthy fats. It’s got heavy whipping cream in it but I use the Starbucks medium blend. I just buy it at the grocery store. And coconut milk, unsweetened coconut milk and the heavy whipping cream and then I get his sugar free flavors, flavors syrup. And then of course you know the whipped cream on top, low carb, low payments, low carb and low sugar Say no. So

Ryan Freng 10:01
yes, that’s awesome. Yeah, I’ll take two. Yes. I wouldn’t

Apache Danforth 10:05
know what would probably would taste really good as some of that rum in here. Yeah. Oh, yeah, shot of the rum started off. It’s kind of early though, guys, for me.

Ryan Freng 10:17
That’s why we always wait till 1201. So are you I don’t actually know, where are you located? Are you in the Green Bay area right now or somewhere else?

Apache Danforth 10:26
Yeah, that’s kind of interesting, too, because I live on the Oneida reservation, but my address is a Green Bay address. So we, we have overlapping jurisdictions with several municipalities. We’re located in two entirely different counties, a village and a township within our reservation boundaries, but our reservation boundaries are have always remained intact. And that’s been something that’s been challenged before by people who are not necessarily accepting of natives, you know, sovereignty in our rights. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that’s been challenged discipline or went to the Supreme Court level. And that’s our boundaries remain intact and have been intact and will remain intact. So

Ryan Freng 11:12
one good thing has happened. That’s great.

Apache Danforth 11:14
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s a whole history on that. But where I live, I live probably about a mile from Lambeau Field. So my gosh, right, take about three blocks, three turns out of my neighborhood, and I can see the big G up on Lombardy Avenue there. So well, that’s awesome. It is. Cool. Yeah.

Ryan Freng 11:36
While you’re putting on something to that people, a lot of people might not know. But our reservations are sovereign nations. And so you are you’re leaving Green Bay, you’re entering another year, you leaving the United States, you’re you’re entering another sovereign nation. But it sounds like you said there’s overlapping jurisdiction that sounds like a pain in the neck.

Apache Danforth 11:58
Yeah, well, you know, a lot of it was, well, first of all, the united people were here before the state was a state before with this nonsense. So we predate the state of Wisconsin. And that’s, you know, exactly a good example of how we’re sovereign. I’m not an expert. And I’m not an attorney. And I don’t, I just know a little bit about it. But, but I know, I’m interested enough about it, to try to try to keep it you know, keep keep abreast of it. So we are sovereign, and basically, we’re a nation within a nation, we have our own constitution or our own bylaws, but that’s separate from our sovereignty, our sovereignty is inherent, we were not given our sovereignty that the United States doesn’t give that to us. It’s inherent, and that’s with many with all tribes across the nation. So it’s unique, we have a really unique relationship with the federal government as well as the state government. So when you boil down to local communities, it’s you know, and it looks just like any other community, I live, I mean, my I live in a suburb basically. It’s, it’s treelined, you know, manicured grass, all that and, and you know, that, then you go more into the reservation into those, like heart of the reservation, I guess, you could say, and it’s, um, it’s more rural, you know, a more rural atmosphere out there, which is something that’s the type of tries to maintain in and keep it, you know, keep it natural, the natural environments and habitats upheld and a rural atmosphere. So, but a lot of the a lot of the overlapping jurisdiction issues have to do with land being sold and bought and sold and bought. But, you know, some of our land we’ve bought back three times already, because we’ve lost it either through not understanding taxation, through not having the resources to develop infrastructure within the reservation. So there’s a variety of reasons why we would have lost our land, and a lot of it was was purchased by farm farmers. So it’s a lot of farmland. And yeah, I feel like I’m keep talking target.

Ryan Freng 14:15
No, no, that’s great. And, yeah, go ahead, John.

John Shoemaker 14:19
Well, I was just gonna say it’s, it’s, it’s very interesting, because I think I mean, I’ve learned a ton like working with paradigm over the last couple of years and doing these types of projects and going because it’s just like, I don’t think I had any real good idea of what, you know, hear people like, oh, yeah, I grew up on reservation, or, you know, I was, you know, and it’s like, the picture in your mind’s eye of what that means. Maybe way off. It’s just like, Oh, it’s just these boundary lines of like this area. No, you

Apache Danforth 14:53
need a passport. Yeah, it’s like, protect

John Shoemaker 14:58
nations or or a picture in your mind of like, okay, are we talking about like a group of houses? That’s all together? Are we talking about like, like neighborhood? Housing, you know, like you just don’t know,

Apache Danforth 15:14
we don’t live in. We don’t live in our traditional houses anymore. And we don’t live in teepees. That’s Plains Indians. But no, it’s, it’s like any rural community you could roll through. If you’re going if you’re driving from Oshkosh to Madison, you know, any one of them little towns, it could is what you’ll see, you know, we have several stores, we have several casinos. We have a lot of, we do have a lot of environmental areas that it’s really kind of a cool story. It’s kind of I mean, it’s kind of if you’re interested in it, but a lot of the land that was purchased from the farmers that we talked about, who a lot of wind was purchased back, oh, hey, yes. I’m gonna I’m gonna show so you guys get to settle down again. No, yeah.

You can always wave to Yeah, that always happens to me. Joseph, I’m on a show right now. So I need you to get shine and settle right away. Yeah, she’ll say come here and say hi. And then hit it. Oh, my gosh. That’s Isabella. Isabella. How’s it going? She’s moving. Just keep Yeah. Yeah. Here, here. Oh, I see like a doggy con there. There it goes. She’s the baby. Dog. And she. She’s a Rottweiler. A Rottweiler. Yeah. Don’t tell the mortgage company. Oh, she’s such a big baby. Yeah, what a cutie. Yeah. And the camera.

John Shoemaker 17:07
Look at you.

Ryan Freng 17:10
So you are telling the story about your name? Oh, yeah. And we kind of went more into the history of the nation a little bit. But yeah. Could you tell us a little bit more about that, like you talked about? You know, you don’t know how common it was in your family. But then maybe your grandmother wanted to do this as like becoming a woman like, yeah,

Apache Danforth 17:31
yeah. So. So like I said, we didn’t have our ceremonies here. But we, we connect it with the Oneidas that live that are near Ontario, London, Ontario. And they helped us with all of that. I mean, this is a huge story and but one of their faith keepers, who’s very well respected from a well respected family gave me my name when I was younger. And it was given to me there and in Oneida Canada. So okay, yeah. So but then when I when I got older, my mom wanted to be because we like one of the ceremonies that we that we lost was a rites of passage ceremony. And so there was no we didn’t have any way to do that. And so I think my mom saw it kind of as a way of my rite of passage. And so my, my then my grandmother gave me the name. Younger when I was two, and my mother. Hey, guys. Settle in and settle down, please. Okay, so, um, her name was Grace, Elijah, she was a faith keeper out there. And she gave me my name. And it was Java, and it means girls holding a flower. So,

Ryan Freng 18:41
oh, yeah. You know, and don’t worry about okay, we’ve got kids running around in the background. pretty worried.

Apache Danforth 18:49
I don’t have to tell you guys coming in suddenly, that’s just two right now.

Ryan Freng 18:55
Yeah, just the chaos of beautiful fans.

Apache Danforth 19:00
But I can see them getting their headsets on in their, their controllers, so they’re going to be real.

Ryan Freng 19:06
Nice. Yeah. So let’s say you had that other name. We give it to you when you’re in Canada. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 19:15
Yeah. Like I said, That’s not typically something that is done. That’s, um, you when you get a name, you get it, you know, that’s your name for life. So, but okay.

John Shoemaker 19:30
Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting, because it also makes me think about how a lot of us when when it really comes down to it, a lot of us don’t know much about who we are, or who we are, where we came from, and things like that, you know, like, yeah, you know, a lot of Americans especially are just like, I don’t know, my family kind of grew up here, whatever, but it’s where where’d you come from?

Apache Danforth 20:01
That was kind of the goal. All right, the melting pot there, you know, Americans, there’s no, you know, it was a melting pot. Yeah. But in the in the process you right, I think a lot, you know, a lot of identity was lost. And I think that’s probably why, you know, the country is the way it is these days not to get into too deep of a conversation, but there’s a lot of people who don’t have an identity and they need some to identify. And I always felt like being a Native American growing up Native American, like how lucky I was that I had my identity, I didn’t have to, you know, look for it somewhere else. And, and our church that you know, fit in the here fit in there. I always knew I wasn’t where I came from. So we have generations charted on our family tree. So yeah,

Ryan Freng 20:55
this, this whole idea is something that I’m super interested in, because you’re right, like, the whole idea of this country, a melting pot, we’re coming together. And you know, the diversity is one of the things that make us stronger. But also in that diversity are things that are different, that should not be forgotten, you know, and it’s, it’s weird to be, you know, German, Norwegian, Irish. I think those are kind of my main, European ethnicities. But then, you know, we have maybe one or two Norwegian things from my dad’s mom, we have some German things from my mom’s mom, but not a ton. Because they lost a bunch of that, from their, from them to their parents. And then when they moved around the country, you know, they got some of that culture and, you know, community from wherever they were. And so they take on other practices as well. So then it kind of becomes, well, that’s a little more Iowa and South Dakota, it’s not necessarily German, or Norwegian, or anything, it’s just kind of, you know, the Western Midwest, some of those things. And so I’ve been fascinated of like, okay, well, what, what’s interesting in the past, that we could bring back, that’s special and should be remembered and maintained, as opposed to things that, you know, don’t necessarily need to so I’ve done a little bit of digging, kind of, along my dad’s side to Norway, and found some interesting stuff. And, yeah, that’s, that’s always fascinated me, because I know, you know, even like, Germans here in Wisconsin, like just very German communities. And I think there’s something very special about that. And so, I always think about these things. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 22:44
Well, I think I think it’s, you know, it’s great when somebody can, you know, connect with something, you know, part of them. And I think that’s why the whole ancestry, you know, ancestry.com is so popular that people are looking for somebody, something to connect to, and it’s surprising some of the results that come out of those things, too. So. But yeah, but just, you know, the whole the whole topic of identity and, and knowing who you are and where you came from, is, it’s really important, it’s an important conversation to have.

John Shoemaker 23:18
I also love like, the idea of a name meaning more, because I think a lot of people you know, maybe in our generation, maybe in the generation surrounding is just like, why are you named what you are? It’s like, I don’t know, somebody liked it, or whatever.

Ryan Freng 23:36
It was popular in the 90s Yeah,

John Shoemaker 23:38
I love the idea of like, names meaning, meaning something you know, like, Well, it’s because this because we were thinking about this, or these things were happening at the time or whatever, like, you know, there’s like, more of a marker, you know, why that name is has been given? Yeah, yeah. Do you guys have Do your kids have Oneida names? Yeah. Something like becoming okay.

Apache Danforth 24:03
Oh, yeah. No, and that’s really interesting. Because, um, that you say is that something becoming more you know, common but when I was growing up, it wasn’t as common however that as our as we started learning more about our ways and bringing our ceremonies back you know, into our community and in essence building our fire we started you know, you started seeing more and more families you know, just giving those the Oneida names only so you know, just my all my kids all have one night a name but they also my oldest daughter as an, you know, just on a night name. And then the rest of them have English names and then Oneida named separate. But there’s a lot of families that do just just go with the Oneida name, you know, that’s on the birth certificate. Can everything when you see how long my name is? So my oldest daughter’s name is yoga Lessa Yoji stoke Wah. And that means she it means if you like, literally translated is what I was taught and I don’t speak the language disclaimer, I am not a language speaker and and I’m not when I do try to attempt to speak the language I don’t I don’t mean to offend anybody who does speak the language because I might maybe mispronounce something, but I just kind of disclaimer.

Ryan Freng 25:32
But this is a safe space. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 25:34
Well, my my next daughter, her name is Hayley was Saha. And that means she finishes important matters. And then Isabella is I don’t say, time, I’m gonna do stuff. And it means she takes care of the garden. And then my son is Lunesta. Haha, and that means he hangs the corn. So a lot of the names do have to do with like the natural elements, but not necessarily like the sun, the moon, the stars, but more like duties and responsibilities and, and the time of the year that, hey, we live outside across the street. Oh my gosh. My little dog run over there. And she she goes number two on the neighbor’s yard and the neighbor gets mad, but they’re like, you know, she’s a little dog. But they don’t like that. Somebody. Yeah, so that’s those are some of my kids names and meanings. So

Ryan Freng 26:42
is that is Oneida, its own language because I know we work with. We work with Ojibwe, you know, and let’s see who’s all up north like Fond du Lac and, you know, that’s. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 27:01
Yeah. So there’s, there’s the, I’ll see, oh, there’s luck to Flamborough. There’s bad river there St. Croix, there’s Red Cliff. There’s mo Lake. Those are all six Ojibwe tribes. In the state of Wisconsin, there’s 11 tribes. Six of them are Ojibwe. And then there’s Menominee Ho Chunk Oneida.

Ryan Freng 27:26
And isn’t it its own language then? Yeah. Okay. Yeah,

Apache Danforth 27:31
we all Ojibwe is obviously there you know, the same in there might be different dialects. But yeah, every every tribe has a different different language. They might share dialects. Mohawk, the Mohawk language is a language that’s real close to ours. Close to the Oneida language. So but yeah,

Ryan Freng 27:54
yeah, cuz it just listening to those names. It sounds like different like, some of the sounds, the vowel sounds, the consonant sound sound a little different than Ojibwe, which kind of has a little bit more Oshkosh ganache. You know, kind of like SSH is in CA. And you know, I don’t know more chewy. I’m trying to think of a better way to I don’t. It just sounds very different. Which, you know, is super interesting.

Apache Danforth 28:22
Yeah, I wouldn’t even attempt. I can just be polite and in Ojibwe, and say blue and just greet somebody.

Ryan Freng 28:31
That’s Magwitch Yeah, I have I have greetings,

Apache Danforth 28:36
but I will. What swag money. I learned how to say with swag money. And that’s the in Lac du Flambeau, which is near Managua. They actually just opened their bowls. They have Tuesday, power walls. And so every Tuesday you can go and they have this amazing outdoor kind of amphitheater, and they they have the power and they open it to the public. And they just start it back up. June 11. I want to say is that oh,

Ryan Freng 29:05
yeah, today.

Apache Danforth 29:06
So Tuesdays, they have I know, they have a Tuesday. powwow that they’re starting. So that’s really kind of interesting. But I learned how to say it was swag and nice. So

Ryan Freng 29:16
that’s awesome. I know. In Minnesota, I actually don’t know what tribe they are. But we’re doing with the Learning Center, just northwest of the cities up there. And they part of their learning center is doing regular powwows and sweat lodges and things like that and inviting everyone. Yeah. Which is really, really awesome. Just that idea of sharing the culture in you know, in an open way, because I feel like a lot of things go in waves. And sometimes with culture, we’re like, no, no, no, you can’t do that. That’s us. That’s our culture. But then it kind of swings back and we’re like, yeah, it is our culture, but we want to share it because it’s so beautiful. And you can you’ll be better off by having experienced it. So I hope because we’re gonna go do some work. up there filming that stuff, I hope we can be a part of some of those experiences because we’re going to learn so much.

Apache Danforth 30:05
Yeah, so that’s what you’re doing with this learning center than is you’re doing filming?

Ryan Freng 30:12
Yeah, we’re gonna be filming with him. I don’t know specifically what it is, but they kept talking about the powwow and the large stuff that they’re bringing everybody into. So I’m really hoping we can see some of that participate in some of that and then potentially film some of it.

Apache Danforth 30:27
I’d be I’d be surprised if they let you film a sweat lodge, I’d be really surprised, but I’m sure they that they would, you know, probably open it up for you. But yeah, so some of the stuff is very, you know, very guarded. But again, there’s a lot of stuff that’s for everybody that you know, it’s social, you know, the power walls or social and I met at my previous job with a towel, I would set up our booth and we go all over the place and and market native Wisconsin, so the 11 tribes and all of their tourism assets, but all of their, you know, their destinations places or their powers or events. So in market all that and there’s so many people who did not think that they could go to a Powell like it was just for tribal members. And I explained to him no, my goodness, no, it’s not it’s it’s totally a social event. there’s food, there’s music, there’s dancing, there’s, you know, there’s stands there shopping, it’s a festival. It’s a huge festivals, and everybody’s welcome. Yeah, there are certain ceremonies that they’re not everybody’s welcome to and there’s certain events, but the powers are definitely a social event, and everybody should try to check them out.

John Shoemaker 31:41
Yeah, it’s, it’s an interesting thing about about culture and about culture sharing and stuff that I think everybody’s like struggling with right now. Because they’re not really sure what they’re supposed to do, because so many different groups have, like, turned everything into a fight. And I’ll step lightly through this conversation. But basically, we went years back we were up at, we’re camping in the Hatfield area. And then we went to a powwow in is it Black River Falls is over there. And it was amazing. It was It was super fun. The kids like had a good time. And the general experience of it was feeling very included. Like we were by far the palest family. But you know, who was kind of announcing everything like kept reiterating, like, just how well you know how happy they were for everyone to be there. And, you know, and encouraging people to like, dance along and it’s like, we don’t know what the heck we’re doing, we’re gonna look like idiots that you’re inviting us in, instead of saying, I will be offended if you try to, like, do this, and clearly don’t know what you’re doing. Whereas there are some areas of our culture right now, like you said, that are saying, like, No, this isn’t for you. This is only us. And if you do anything like that, if you mimic our music, or the way that you know, the style of clothing that we wear, like you are offending me. And to me, I just don’t really understand some of that, like, especially, it’s like, I’m not, I’m not pretending to be somebody I’m not. It’s just like, there’s like, we’ve all borrowed like culture from each other. Like, when we celebrate whatever holidays we do, or whatever. It’s actually there. The roots are deeper than we think they’re, they’re from all cultures that were borrowed. Anyway, so yeah, I’ll let you have a thought that looks important. No, I’m

Apache Danforth 34:00
just trying to I guess I’m just trying to understand like what you’re saying you’re like, borrowing borrowing stuff. Well, there are design,

John Shoemaker 34:10
like, Can Can we sing different styles of music? You know, like, that’s the one I think I think I can share this one because it’s it’s kind of a known thing. Like, okay, there’s a if there’s a white rapper, sometimes they’ll get a lot of flack for being like a hip hop artist. Because they’re, they’re posing there they’re not you know, they don’t really belong in that music scene. But a lot of you know, we don’t like we don’t always know everybody’s history. We don’t know like where they’re influenced by. I guess I’m just making the case for that was a great experience to be included in invited like, here’s this fun thing like you guys can participate. Thank you for coming

Apache Danforth 34:59
by Where’s where do you draw the line?

John Shoemaker 35:01
Maybe it’s different. Yeah. I mean,

Ryan Freng 35:03
I thought that’s a good question. Yeah, it wouldn’t,

John Shoemaker 35:07
it wouldn’t be appropriate. I would feel very uncomfortable. Like, I wouldn’t lead a Power Hour, you know, do something. So, yeah, maybe there is some difference there. I don’t know.

Ryan Freng 35:19
Well, yeah. And I think I think part of it too, is that that back and forth, you know, like, when abuse and bad things happen, we react strongly. So we come, you know, really far over here. But then hopefully, we kind of settle out. And we’re like, no, no, this is appropriate, this is not appropriate. And we give people mercy, you know, we approach things with mercy and grace.

John Shoemaker 35:42
Yeah, maybe it’s because I don’t know my identity. You know, that’s, I think, maybe, yeah, for a lot of like, Americans, because you’re like, Well, I get it, I shouldn’t be respectful. I need to be respectful of cultures. But then, if you don’t really know, your history, and you’re kind of left in this place of like, well, what what thing can be my thing that, you know, like, I’m not Yeah, you know, I’m not proud of, I’m not proud of wonderbread and

Apache Danforth 36:17
baseball, and apple pies.

Ryan Freng 36:21
apple pies are really good.

Apache Danforth 36:23
Right. And I think, you know, regardless of identity, and cultures, and all of that, and how far back you can go, I think that people, you know, just having basic fundamental values, good values, as good people, you know, family oriented, I think, I think that kind of is where, and that’s and I want to go back to joint where, you know, where do you draw the line, I want to go back to that, but, but just in terms of identity, you know, it doesn’t, it’s not, you don’t need to have an identity and know where you came from, for generations to just be a good person and be nice. And, you know, and, and kind and family oriented. And, you know, those those kinds of values that that are not just American, but their you know, Native American, their, their Asian American, black American, it’s all you know, we can all have them, them fundamentals. And Edwina Hey, girl, yes, we should all have standards as humans. Absolutely, yeah. And that’s where we can find our common ground. You know, and, and I think that drawing the line, you know, you know, participating in the PowerShell, and those kinds of things and feeling really included in that and, and knowing not to how to overstep, you know, kind of that welcome. You know, I think that, um, I think, basically, like, as Native people, we understand that not everybody understands our culture, we know that, we know that everybody understands it, and you’re gonna get different reactions, I think, from different people. I think some people might be like, hey, you know, don’t do that. But I think there’s a lot of other people who can, who will, because of our values, and our and the way, you know, that we conduct ourselves that will come to you from a peaceful place and an educating place in a place where, you know, we want you to understand this is why not just can’t do it.

Ryan Freng 38:17
Yeah, and it’s gonna be too loud. Can you?

John Shoemaker 38:22
Well, you know, I was gonna say that. Common Ground is is an interesting term. And, and, you know, we, I believe I agree with you, we should have standards that I think there is, there’s more commonality to the values that that we pick, and hold, there’s more common ground than people think. And this starts to get into slippery slope territory as well. Because there’s a lot of people that will try to go the route of just like, well, whatever is good for you. It’s like, well, that doesn’t actually work allow, you know, on a society level, because if everybody’s just doing whatever they want to do, then we’re not finding that common. It’s,

Ryan Freng 39:14
it’d be uncommon. Yeah, we’re

John Shoemaker 39:16
not finding those shared values where we’re, you know, like you said, like, it’s important to value family and community. And so if somebody’s trying to go with like, well, whatever is good for me is to not value family and not value community. That’s like, Okay, you’re not

Ryan Freng 39:33
Yeah, well, in that that, what is that mercy, grace. You know, there’s lots of words for it, just affording somebody. The respect and dignity that they deserve as a person is so important, regardless of where they came from what they believe, you know, we might believe two totally different things or opposing things, but you deserve dignity and respect. And I was reading a book the other day, which is really interesting. Like, you get frustrated by people you know, you get anxious by something somebody does. And this is what is this book. It’s a it’s a spiritual book, Catholic book. But it’s basically saying, like, you’re getting anxious about someone else’s behavior, but that behavior was allowed by God. So you’re getting anxious on something that, you know, is a part of God’s plan. So what does that say about you? You know, that’s, that’s an interesting kind of Christian perspective on that. And I love just talking, you know, with people of all different types of faith persuasions, because I feel like it’s all very similar elements to it in that regard. Because yeah, what does that say that I’m so impatient? I’m getting anxious. Because, you know, the other day, John and I were in a meeting, and John was asking some good questions. But I was like, getting annoyed by the questions. I’m like, why are you asking these friggin questions? Do you not trust me? And it wasn’t that he didn’t trust me. He was just curious about, you know, these things. And I’m like, I need to have more more mercy, and, you know, overcome my own shortcomings in my own expectations, in order to afford that to others. And I think that’s, that’s one of those common grounds those basic culture. People.

Apache Danforth 41:18
I’m gonna, I need to just, I need one minute. I’m gonna turn my mic off that. Okay.

Ryan Freng 41:24
That sounds good. Yeah, you can always we can always, it sounds like you have to fight a dog.

John Shoemaker 41:31
Maybe, in my mind, but we’ll have to, I’ll have to restate it. When we have our back is, yeah, and maybe this kind of gets to Nina’s point here, too. Is then, okay, so we’ve got these like common ground, trying to have some values trying to respect each other. It seems that the drama of a lot of the work that we’ve been doing and telling people’s stories is, what do you do now, today?

Ryan Freng 42:10

John Shoemaker 42:12
you injustices have been done in the past, by other people, not you? What do you do now? Because now here you are. And you’re, you’re in the present moment. And we like, especially with the country just in general, and the drama of like, native communities and reservations and stuff, like, what do you do like it’s at Anwar unwind all of that? You can’t go back. And like, undo the country. But then how do you move forward? In, in respecting communities and cultures and things like that? That, you know,

Ryan Freng 43:00
yeah, that’s a really good point that you’re gonna have to reiterate. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s super interesting. Yeah. I don’t want to say anything, because I want to wait.

John Shoemaker 43:11
Yeah, we’re, I’m not the person to answer the question that I that I pose. But that it is. It’s extremely interesting to me to look at that point, because there’s, there’s so many different areas. I mean, we could do instead of a macro level, it take it down to a micro level. Don’t say, Well, how does it work? Here

Ryan Freng 43:33
we go. There we go.

John Shoemaker 43:36
I asked a, you know, a million dollar question while you were gone.

Ryan Freng 43:42
If you saw this, you get the million dollars.

John Shoemaker 43:44
So I was just saying that. What’s so interesting to me about a lot of the work that we’ve done in interviewing people and hearing stories, and talking about history and communities on the topic,

Ryan Freng 43:58
and learning real history.

John Shoemaker 44:02
And winos. Right, I knew she was going to answer for me and get in there and get some some good feedback. Yeah. It’s kind of the question the drama of like, what do you do then? If we’re talking about respecting each other and respecting community and respecting values? What do you do with injustices that are historic, you know, they’re they’re yours back there. They were done by people that are not you or not me that we don’t even know. Maybe we kind of have the connection of like how they were somewhat related to some family. But now we’re here now we’re in the present moment, and you can’t really unwind the thing. So you can’t really unwind to the country and take and take it apart and like, give it back and restore it. It’s kind of I think some people would like that. but it’s not really like reasonable on a societal level to like. So how do you move forward? And that weenus?

Ryan Freng 45:09
Yeah, how do we fix these historical injustice?

Apache Danforth 45:14
I don’t know, John, I think I don’t know that I agree that we can’t, we can’t go back to a more civilized society. Because I think, as long as as if we, if we just all go back to the traditional way that we all live, No, I’m joking, I’m joking.

Ryan Freng 45:31
But if we,

Apache Danforth 45:33
ourselves in that manner with those values in the you know, there are there is a way there is a way and that and but you can only do it within yourselves in your own family. That’s the way we that’s the way you have to start it is within yourself and within your family. And, you know, like we said, It’s not my responsibility to, you know, educate somebody about it, it’s their responsibility to get it, but where are they going to get it from? Why not get it from the source? You know, so I think this is a really it might be, you know, a good segue into talking about the project a little bit more. Because the project that I’m working about really, really does. It does it, it does, it’s a really good example of having our seat at the table having a Native American voice and perspective, weighing in on on things that are affecting our communities and our people and our women and in girls. So that’s a big part of the project, the project I’m working on is, you know, is there, there’s an there’s an opportunity, an opportunity for me to sit at the table, and advise on a project on this project. Then, like I said, I’m not the not the mm IW expert, I’m not a human trafficking expert. But I’m a project manager, and I’m a native woman in that. And that is a very, you know, has a very impact. I have daughters, you know, human trafficking has an impact on me, personally, because of the fact that I’m Native, and I have daughters. And right now in Wisconsin, I there is a task force that’s been set up through the Attorney General’s Office. And, and it is an indigenous led task force. So, so they’re working on some of the issues that, that, that come up when you’re talking about human trafficking, and I don’t, I don’t want to speak specifically on mm IW. But like, I’m just I’m just going to talk about human trafficking as

Ryan Freng 47:38
we were, we might need to we need to mention too, we all know MMI W mm IW missing murdered indigenous women, and sometimes there’s other writers after that were children boys or men.

Apache Danforth 47:53
Girls, children to spirit.

Ryan Freng 47:56
Yeah, yep.

Apache Danforth 47:59
So yeah, you guys are familiar with with MMI W and the impact. And I did look up a little bit just to kind of just to kind of give a little perspective on how how our Native American women and girls are targeted for this, you know, in the statistics of Minnesota, Minnesota has has a taskforce that’s been established, and they’ve already developed their report. And I know you guys have worked over there. So I thought it’d be kind of recovered to, to look at that. But you know, in Minnesota, although there’s a lot of tribes there, they’re the Native American population is only 1% in Minnesota, but 9% of the murdered and missing women in their in their state are Native American, you know, so. So that just shows you the the number the

Ryan Freng 48:50
disproportionate nature of it. Yeah, thank

Apache Danforth 48:51
you. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So and we know that

Ryan Freng 48:56
same thing. Same thing with human trafficking, right. I think there’s a statistic of like, 40%, right, are native individuals, which was insanely disproportionate.

Apache Danforth 49:08
But one of the things too, that’s important to talk about when you’re talking about this is that this statistic is a challenge area. And that’s something that I’ve learned just working with this project, getting accurate statistics on natives, because there’s a lot of times issues and with reporting and jurisdiction and so it’s not maybe not even getting to the right agency or the right jurisdiction, and then by the time that you’re you’ve already lost the victim because they don’t want to report there’s, there’s so so so many issues with human trafficking that I’ve I’ve learned, like I said, That’s not my area of expertise, but I knew that that was going to be hard. When I took this project. I knew that was going to be a challenge for me to take on that heavy stuff. So

Ryan Freng 49:51
we’ve seen We’ve seen examples of the systemic racism of it in that things get reported and but then the authorities say, well, they’re native, you know, so they kind of disappear for a couple of days, they’ll be back, it’ll be fine. So some of the normal protocols aren’t taken into account. So in the film, we talk about it of like, Why does you know, this little white girl, when she goes missing, you know, it within 12 hours, they’re looking for her. But this native native girl, they don’t, they don’t even start after a week, or they start after a week, you know, they were notified two days after she was gone, but they’re like, ah, you know, they they disappear. And like, that’s, like, you know, that is just a inappropriate racism that, you know, is, is something that exists. And it was, it was definitely enlightening to actually see that and hear those stories. Because you kind of hear that in the news, but you don’t think about it, and then you hear in, you see some examples? And you’re like, Oh, okay. And I guess, I guess you could argue about the the idea of systemic in the sense of like, is that a rule that if it’s native, it’s a native girl, you don’t do it? It’s not a rule, but it’s, it’s what how people behave reception to behavior? Yeah, yeah.

Apache Danforth 51:11
Yeah. And, you know, I’ve heard stories like from, from women who have actually had been abducted and attempted an attempted abduction. And it wasn’t all, you know, the reporting, part of it was a challenge for her in, you know, because nothing actually happened, you know, there’s nothing to report yet they, they know who tried to do it, they have his license plate number, but there’s nothing to report. So I think that’s one of the challenges that you know, and when you’re talking about human trafficking, that that’s happening. So this, the project that we’re working on, is, is, is we’re providing a training, we’re providing a training video for, for a large, controversial company, and their, their workers, and who will be converging on Northern Wisconsin to work on a large project. So we know that, you know, not that the industry is has full ownership of it. But we know that this industry is directly related to human trafficking. So I, I can see that they are trying to be proactive in providing this training, and going right into the state and getting people that are using the resources within the state of Wisconsin, who are working on this and who have been working on human trafficking issues in in that part of the state, and getting them to the table and saying, Hey, what what what do we need to tell our employees? What should we tell them? Because we don’t want this happening? We don’t want any cases happening while we’re here.

John Shoemaker 53:06
You know, we want it’s good. It’s great that, you know, you’re getting at the source because, you know, we know, the statistics, you know, tell us that like anytime there’s a large group have like, I forget the terms that people use, but workers, part time workers that are in town for a part time, or, you know, they always talking about the Super Bowl, like big events that show up in an area that are just bring a lot of people, the feed people that are actually doing the trafficking. They’re targeting those types of areas. And so yeah, getting at the source of it is like a good way to tackle it. But yeah, it’s not still not easy.

Apache Danforth 53:57
And being proactive about it, and letting them know, Hey, we’re on task about this. And so are the people in this area. There, they are aware that this is, you know, that, that this project is happening, and they’re you know, and, and so, part of part of the program that we’re on paradigm, I’m working with paradigm, and part of the program we’re developing is that training piece, and we, you know, it’s it’s going to reach about 700 of those employees, and that’s, to me 700 That’s a big impact. You know, what they do with it after that, you know, that’s, you know, we have no control over that. However, they had to hear it and they had to go through and they have to know, and, you know, I think we we want to kind of remind them that you know, these girls, they’re somebody’s daughter, there’s somebody’s you know, Sister they they’re human beings. These are humans, they’re not objects and I just think kind of playing to you Know that emotion and people and that empathy and that value in common value that people should have is part of is going to be a good part of the training and the video, because it’s a training video, followed up with some curriculum. But then they’re also being you know, the as they didn’t like they did with your call. Mm, there’s, there’s that ongoing marketing awareness piece with the project. So there’s the training, and then the outward marketing piece to it. So it’s going to have an impact, and I don’t maybe you guys can talk can talk a little bit about the Minnesota what you guys did in Minnesota.

Ryan Freng 55:41
Yeah, so there’s been a lot of work that we’re doing in Minnesota, in this public awareness. So certainly the public awareness campaign and in training, and then with other groups up there, like we work with the link, who worked with victims, as well as men’s breaking free with trafficking victims, as well as John’s former John’s sex buyers. So you know, it’s, it’s, it’s such a, it’s so crazy, we’ve talked about this with Rob before, too, like, this stuff is heavy, and like, it’s 1256. And like, 15 or 20 minutes, we’re gonna play a game called two truths and a lie, to get to know you more. But it’s, it’s an interesting thing, because we’re talking about something so heavy and so important. And we, you know, want to get the word out. But at the same time, it’s like, how do you deal with this stuff as a person? You know, how do you hear these statistics and like, hear about like a four year old, being abused, right? Or a toddler being groomed, you know, Christine Starks story, like, I want to do, like, I want to make a movie about that. I want books to view. Like, I know, she does a lot of work too. But like, I hadn’t heard about her until we worked on this project. And she was somebody who had been abused since she was a toddler groomed for pornography and sex work. And she got out of it. When she was like, 18, she was able to go away go to school. And you know, she’s, she’s still dealing with that. And like, anyone who hears that, will feel that, you know, like, I’m getting, like, oh, my gosh,

Apache Danforth 57:24
yeah. She’s an amazing author. She’s an amazing writer. I mean, I didn’t I haven’t read yet. She’s

Ryan Freng 57:31
sharing and, and she’s writing. Yeah, all these. It’s like fiction, I’m trying to think. But just stories. That helps her deal with it, but then can help others as well. And like, this work is so important. But there’s, there’s a culture and this again, like a problem with just predominant culture, where it’s like, no, no, no, it’s empowering that a woman is selling her body and she wants to do it. And you know, it’s okay. And I think what we’re finding is, most of the time 99 Making up statistics, I don’t know, but a majority of the time, it’s not okay with them. They’re being trafficked by somebody else in a small way, in a big way. Even we spoke with a woman that who works for men, men breaking free in the cities, and she would actually go work at legal brothels, she was being pimped by somebody in, in this in the cities, and he would send her out, he would fly her around the country. And one of the places you would send her is illegal brothel, even to the point where he was able to get her a social security card to the police because you have to register at the it’ll register at the police department to be illegal escort or I don’t know what they’re called to work in a brothel. And that appeared in one day. And the police were like, Okay, sounds good. You know, so that’s obviously like, cultural systems have problem and that perception, like, people think, no, it’s okay. It’s fine. And you know, how pornography can lead into that people don’t understand. So I, the work that we’re doing, I hope people see far and wide, because it’s enlightening. It’s eye opening. And it’s something that everybody needs to hear. Everybody, you know, even if you’re not remotely close to this in the sense of like, you might not bisects but you have family members, you have friends, you know, like, who could be vulnerable or could be abused or you might see somebody at a hotel. If you go to the big game. If you go, you know, to the Super Bowl, and you see some stuff going on. You need to be educated enough that you can report that? You know, so you mentioned the work that we’re doing this that was just kind of my brains view of like, kind of the current experience of I don’t know what I’ve been thinking about lately.

John Shoemaker 1:00:19
We might have lost Oh, there you

Apache Danforth 1:00:21
are. Yeah, just, I was muted, because there’s a lot of stuff going on. But definitely a lot of bystander, you know, syndrome going on. And you know, that that’s something I was just talking about my girlfriend and seeing you. And this is kind of an example that’s not, you know, a human trafficking example at all, but we went to a local pot Lake and these kids had taken one of the, the picnic tables, and thought it, you know, put it in the lake, and they’re playing on it and jumping off it. And when we got there, and there was a couple other adults, you know, who were there and, and then we set up, we just kind of ignored them, but then they went, and they grabbed some rocks that were in this crikey and, and they brought these big rocks, these big concrete rocks, they’re gonna throw them in, and I was stopped. I said, Hey, guys, do this. Are those supposed to go in? You know, they put those in there? Because if you’re not, then you probably should just go put them back. And they’re like, Well, no, we’re just gonna wash them off and say, No, I think you probably should go put, put them back. And then I was like, table shouldn’t be in there. Either. I was like, You need to put that back to, but, but I’m thinking about, my kid’s gonna go in there in cut his foot on, you know, this big rock that they’re putting in there, because it doesn’t belong in there. But if I don’t say anything, they’re just gonna do it. And so this was kind of thinking, like, the bystanders, you know, we got to, we got to start speaking up. And it’s all it’s about people safety, it’s not about me being comfortable in or being uncomfortable yelling at somebody else’s kid, even though I didn’t try to yell at them. You know, it’s not about my comfort, or my anxiety, it’s about somebody safety in the long run, at the end of the day, you’re, you’re, you’re doing some of the, you know, that’s, you’re helping somebody. I’ve done it too. And the we put together an advisory group of law enforcement, I have kids, it’s an indigenous led group to help us advise us on this project. So um, so one of the things that we’re hearing is, in and even one of the law enforcement, you know, people that are on our group, you know, she goes, I seen it, when I was on a call, I seen it. But because we were trained, and we didn’t really, we didn’t have a really good grasp of human trafficking, and all that what that entailed. Um, you know, she said, I’d let it go. And I regret that to this day, because I could have done something. And that’s a lot. That’s the officer, you know, so. So imagine just being a citizen, and and, you know, you have an opportunity to save somebody, and what are you going to do? But if you don’t know what it is, you don’t, then that’s what this if you don’t know what it is? How can you report it? How can you help? And that’s why this Minnesota is so important, because it’s it has those those elements of what should I do? Who should I call, and that’s why this project is going to be incredibly important to Wisconsin because it’s going to, it’s going to not only educate the, the company and their employees, but it’s also going to be a resource for the communities and people to tap into, to, to know where to go and know what to do and know who’s who’s, who’s. Who’s working on these. You know, who’s gonna who’s there to help?

Ryan Freng 1:03:43
Yeah, yeah. Well, and it’s so important to because we see these things, and we’re like, oh, wow, that’s crazy. In Minnesota, that’s not here. Yeah, see something national. And you’re like, Yeah, Vegas is messed up, or New York is messed up. But what the what it does, you know, doing something here is like, Yeah, this is happening in Madison. Here’s the story from Madison, this is Milwaukee, this is Green Bay, you know, like, here’s some stories to let you know that it’s in your backyard. And that’s part of the messaging of the film that we created is like, your daughter, your sister, your brother, your, you know, your kid, whatever. It’s like, No, this is personal. Because we are, you know, the human family. And so, you you know, you might not know somebody specifically, but this is your people in your community. And it’s happening, and you can help stop it and you can you need to you got to step up.

Apache Danforth 1:04:39
Right? We have to we do we have to step out of that, you know, status quo type of attitude. I don’t even know if that’s the right thing to say. But you know, we all kind of just minding our own business and as long as it’s not affecting me, I’m all good, you know, so as long as I’m doing my part, but you’re Yeah, things things like this. These are you know, you guys have kids, you know, that’s your job. What if that was your daughter? And you know, I know, some I know people do have personal experiences in that area. And, you know, it’s not easy, it’s hard. It’s a hard thing and it just to deal with, so you know how to how do we so saying, this project is just gonna help help people identify and know what to do and empower them a to? To do it?

Ryan Freng 1:05:29
Oh, my gosh, yeah. Well, and like, I know, a story of a friend whose kids in college and his, his daughter’s friend disappeared for a week, you know, and they were partying, partying, and all sudden, she disappears. And then she comes back. And it was essentially, you know, being groomed to be in, you know, we’re not the conventional you think of like sex trafficking, like kids in cages or people in cages, but like, hey, hey, you want you want to go party, go party, but get that, you know, go hang out with those people and have a good time, right? Like, like, this person disappeared for a week, and you’re like, oh, my gosh, like, at a major college like, this is happening. And it’s happening to us, it’s happening to our friends and our family. Like, and it’s

Apache Danforth 1:06:16
happening online. It’s a lot of it is happening online. And, and who’s all online? You know, right. And that’s one thing I was trying to it’s like, um, you know, it’s it’s not, you know, it’s not always a you typical abduction or something, you’re grabbed up off the street, you know, it’s like you said, it’s the grooming, it’s the, you know, let’s party is the enticement of it, and then, you know, what, you’re only something now. And, and, unfortunately, I think it goes back to identity again, are and values and you know, it I can’t you know what I don’t, I don’t want to speak on that. Because I, I don’t want to judge or assume anything, you know, of anybody in those situations, because then you know, you, you don’t know how you’re gonna react. But you would just hope that you would just hope that you know, your own daughter or your own niece, or would wouldn’t know how to handle themselves in that situation. And again, that goes back to education and awareness. Yeah,

John Shoemaker 1:07:21
it is important, like, the values are important. And I think, apart from the specific issues, the the higher level problems that are falling down is like, just breaking down of values and saying like, well, nothing matters, you just do whatever you want, you know, if it’s good for you, it’s good for, it’s like, no, that’s not true, like not hurting anybody. So parents need to teach their children that they have value, and that they don’t need to give somebody else something to then equate to value like that stuff is important. And, and then so if somebody doesn’t value, the, you know, the importance of being a parent, you know, like, there’s just a lot of things that are connected. And then the other thing that, you know, the way I feel, and the way we all feel, I think working on these projects is that if there’s money being exchanged in these situations, that means that there’s somebody driving this, that there’s an industry behind it, that there are that there are powers beyond what we can see that are taking place behind the scenes, Ryan’s you know, example that we heard in the last project, if somebody’s ending up with a social security card so that they can get the legal status of working at this, like legal brothel. It’s like, how did you get a social security card? Like, what kind of connections are happening behind the scenes? So then you just kind of feel like, wow, it’s, it’s a huge thing. And so it can feel overwhelming, but just taking one step, you know, trying to, you know, you mentioned 700, people are gonna see it on the staff from this one project. On one hand, it’s like, well, 700 isn’t, you know, the number of instances that there are in the country, but on the other hand, it’s like, well, that’s 700 and if we can stop one instance, like, that’s an important thing, you know, like, you can stop two different instances of something happening. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 1:09:35
And the only way that they’re going to be do that is if they’re, if they’re pulling their monitoring each other if they’re holding each other accountable. You know, and I know see something say something it has to do with terrorism, but human trafficking is a huge industry, just like you said jobs. And if you think about it, and you guys worked in this kind of this, this field before, but if you think about it, you If you have a human being you don’t need to re up like drugs, right? You need to re up drugs and to sell them, you need to get more but with a human being you can use that human being over and over. So it’s becoming a US it’s more of an economic impact than we than we realize. And the other thing, too, that we talked about earlier is, you know, the porno how much you know, porn plays into this, and I just seen a little factoid that, you know, Pornhub is one of the most visited is the most visited site over like some of the other popular ones that you know, a lot of people go on, but just like, I can see why. I couldn’t believe

Ryan Freng 1:10:39
it. Yeah, it’s like the number one or number two search engine, like just total, like, even above Google, like, it’s insane. And you mentioned like the dangers, the dangers of online and like, I stream some other stuff, like I stream some games, and I stream some fitness stuff. And twice on on some of the fitness stuff. I’ve had people jump in, and then say really inappropriate things. But that’s like, twice over like 20 times. And I saw a piece I forget who did it. But basically, they pose as like a 13 year old on Instagram. And within an hour of that, that fake 13 year old posting some photos of herself. There was like, you know, hey, send me some pics and like, here’s some pics of me and like, just ridiculous interactions? Like, a whole new thing. Yeah, I’m trying to think maybe if my wife’s watching, she could text me more information. It’s an organization that helps educate parents about the dangers of social media, you know, kids? Yeah. Yeah, solving, solving the difficult problems here on our happy hour.

John Shoemaker 1:11:48
Well, and it’s it’s heavy stuff. But it gets back to that point of like, what we’re attempting to do with these projects is do the work version of not just looking the other way. And being like, oh, that’s because yeah, it’s like, sometimes you’re working on a project, and you’re just like, oh, my gosh, I, I want to, like, hear all this, you know, but then, at the same time, you’re like, but no, it’s important, it’s important to like, not step away from it and disengage and just like, go do the easy stuff. Because that’s, that’s how the problem exists and why it’s continuing.

Ryan Freng 1:12:34
Yeah. Yeah, I’m curious, Apache, you know, kind of your previous work, you know, more culturally related, what was it, like, kind of getting involved in this project? Especially the human trafficking aspects of it? You know, was it was it similar to kind of the projects you’ve worked on before? Or was it drastically different?

Apache Danforth 1:13:00
It I would say it is, it is different, it is drastically different. I have developed in the curriculums before and things like that, of that nature and worked on many projects. With that involves strategic planning. So in, in terms of my previous job, yeah, definitely. Strategic planning was a huge part of that. And that’s kind of what that is what I use to drive this project as well. Making sure that we have that solid strategic plan, and that we’re following it and there’s phases and, and some kind of gauge to what it did to you know, gauge your success. So in terms of the human trafficking part of it, definitely a lot heavier, a lot heavier than than projects I’ve worked on before. I worked on a on a healer, a large event that was developed and it came was kind of a brainchild that came out of Wisconsin Public Television. And they did a bunch of interviews with veterans and Vietnam veterans specifically and through those interviews, realizing that they didn’t get they did not get the welcome home that everybody else got from the war because of the controversy of the Vietnam War. So they wanted to have they wanted to have a landing zone for them. You know, like in the field or in battle than other landing zones, you know, you’re gonna go home, you got to get to the landing zone because that’s gonna get you the chopper out of here and you’re gonna go home. Oh, okay. Yeah. So they had this huge event at Lambeau Field. LZ Lambo, and landings on Lambo. Oh, okay. Yeah. Do you remember that was fun a few years back? No.

Ryan Freng 1:14:47
Well, actually, we worked with John who did we work with?

Apache Danforth 1:14:51
MC MC and John from W

Ryan Freng 1:14:54
was? Well, we didn’t walk with WPA, Wisconsin Public Television, but we worked with a group Who? What is it called badger flight? I think it’s called. Oh, who? So they do that. So they take them, they fly them out to DC on an Honor Flight. Yeah. So they they take them out to DC and like, especially the Vietnam vets. Yeah. And then, you know, when they come home, there’s a line clapping for them, you know, giving them the welcome that they deserved and never got. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 1:15:27
So I guess when you’re talking about, you know, the projects that are meaningful that you know, that’s another project that was very meaningful to me that I’ve worked on. Working with the veterans, I worked with veterans and singers from, from all over the state. And you because each each tribe has a color guard. So each tribe center color guard for Lz, Lambeau and then they all send to drum as well. So they all had a, they all had, you know, the big drum. The big pole drum, I guess you’d be more familiar with that they use at the poles. But also so so that work and Lz Lambeau working with the 11 tried translated to my work in with NATO and worked with all 11 tribes, I help them to develop tourism strategies and inventory the asset tourism assets, as they call them, that they had and market them and promote them. And I did that on a state level on a national level and actually an international level, where I attended a travel show in Bergamo, Italy, and represented the 11 tribes. So we had a really far reach by going out there. And we actually that that, that trade show in Bergamo, Italy actually paid off because we got a media tour to come and do a tour of native Wisconsin. So we developed an itinerary that started in Redcliff, and went all the way through the state and visited almost every tribe in the state. And we had travel writers, from Italy, Italian travel writers, and couple agents, their travel agents are operators, the operators, the operators are kind of do the bigger tours, and the agents do this do the individual. So so we had a nice group that came through and we were able to show native Wisconsin. So that was kind of the cool stuff I got to do. With NATO, I got to work with the Department of Tourism. And beyond there, the governor’s Tourism Council, which is, which is really amazing to see what everybody’s doing across the state just in terms of the arts and destinations and experiential events and things of that nature. So but another, another Governor’s Committee that I was able to sit on, and I’m actually still a part of is the diversity, equity inclusion, and accessibility committee. So, which is Rich’s really meaningful work as well, I get to work with people from across the state and who are working on providing opportunities and for everybody, you know, not just people who cover color, but you know, people who are disabled or, you know, that accessibility part as well. So that’s, it’s really meaningful work that I get to do and I feel like I’m babbling again.

Ryan Freng 1:18:44
Well, it’s I mean, that’s why we came here to hang out and, you know, just hear you share your story. And, yeah, just kind of, I don’t know, engage, right, because that’s, that’s what’s important. It kind of gets back to Edwina is kind of comment about like, have discussions, be an ally? Like, let’s, you know, aside from being an ally with a particular cause, let’s let’s be an ally with each other.

Apache Danforth 1:19:12
Yeah. Don’t be a bystander, you know, don’t be a bystander, say something, see something, you know, get, ask ask the question. And that goes back to John’s like, where’s where do you draw the line? Just ask, you know, don’t don’t, don’t be afraid to ask and, you know, you’ll know who you can ask. You’ll know, you know, it’s like you said, you went to the poll on Black River. And the answer was, you know, included everybody you know, and, you know, the people who you can be an ally with, they’ll let you know, that, you know, that it’s open and, you know, for the most part I mean, a lot of every, every community I’ve worked in every Native community in the state I’ve worked in has been opened their door and welcomed, welcomed us and now Just me. I mean, I brought, like I said, I brought a lot of people, you know, from other areas, the state so they, you know, they were always it’s always like going home.

Ryan Freng 1:20:10
Yeah, we’ve had such great experiences to working with you just so many different people, so many different tribes, so many different organizations, because again, we’re trying to partner to protect, you know, to protect our people, like our people, like all of ours together. Yeah. In our communities. And in that work, we’re all Yeah, we’re all I mean,

Apache Danforth 1:20:37
it can only help it can’t harm anything. You know, I can’t do any harm. So,

Ryan Freng 1:20:43
yeah, at least that’s the goal, right?

Apache Danforth 1:20:46
Yeah. And I appreciate it. We know Wayne and like that, because, you know, sometimes I do, I do forget, it’s not my job to educate. I mean, I know, on this show, of course, you know, I wanted to come and should be in share. But, you know, it’s not always, you know, it’s not always our job to do that. And as long as it’s, you know, like she said, reciprocate it, and, you know, you, you do take that and have that, you know, similar conversation with somebody else, or somebody in your peer group or your network. And, you know, that’s, that’s how we’re going to start bridging that gap. And I like that this conversation really has that underlying tone of inclusion, and then building common ground. And, you know, the, one of the things too, just real quickly, too, one of the things I had to kind of contests with is taking on this project as who, you know, the larger controversial company and, and is that going to impact me as you know, how does that impact me, and my values am I am I going against my not being true to myself and my values, if I go work for this company, when I’m supposed to be this, you know, when I am not supposed to be, but when I’m, you know, I went I was raised in a family of activists, and, you know, we always, you know, it was always against, you know, the powers that be, but here I am, with an opportunity to sit at the table with them, and express my voice, and represent, and I’m not, I’m not gonna say I speak for all natives across the board. But I want, I want my community and the people I know, and my extended communities, I want them to be represented in a way that is respectful and culturally appropriate. And, and authentic, you know, I could have taken this job, but I really felt like I was the best one to do it at the time. And, and that, that that indigenous voice that it needs.

Ryan Freng 1:22:38
Yeah, well, and that’s, that’s what I’ve been impressed with too, is, you know, it could just be like, just a PR issue, or, you know, it’s just a thing. And we’re only going to do the things that we want to do. But like, you know, being indigenous led, having Rob be a part of a lot of this as well. You know, like, I get to see him say, No, that’s not good. You can’t do it that way.

Apache Danforth 1:23:04
I’ve seen amazing, right? Yeah, I’ve

Ryan Freng 1:23:07
never seen I’ve never seen I don’t know anybody in business. Tell like just a big corporation that and have that big corporation. Listen. So there’s something special happening, and it’s good to be a part of it.

Apache Danforth 1:23:19
It definitely is. It definitely is. And I and, you know, like I said, I did, I had to do some soul searching. And I went to my elders, and I went to my family. And, you know, I discussed it with my homegirls. Like, what do you think, should I, you know? And at the end of the day, they’re like, it’s good work? And if you don’t do it, you know, who else is going to do it? Yeah, you know, who

John Shoemaker 1:23:42
better? Yeah, I think it’s, it’s one of those things. Like, it’s not that activism is not, not a good thing to do at times. But when you think about impact, at the end of the day, I think is what you’re looking for, because it’s like, well, let’s say that we’re really successful with like, this activism group, versus some corporation, and you stop the work that they’re doing. Some other corporations just gonna come in and take over that, like, you know, that void in the market, like, this just industry is just driving forward looking for different opportunities to like, do work. So if you can get in there and be a voice at the table, like you said, or be like a leader in the organization and actually steer it in, in the direction. Yeah, it’s, it’s the impact that you can have at the end, end of the day, it’s going to be it’s going to be big.

Apache Danforth 1:24:45
And I believe this project has it has the potential to have a huge impact and to be very helpful and I think that people are when they see what we’re doing. I think they’re gonna want to be more involved in it.

Ryan Freng 1:24:59
Yeah, I Well, and we are we are almost at 130. But I did want to kind of play our two truths and a lie. Because, you know, when we’re working on heavy stuff, I think it’s important to to, to also acknowledge and connect, just as humans and telling these fun stories are really good as well. So let me see this. I did this the other day, which is really fantastic. Here we go.

So that’s like a light turn to this discussion. That was one of my girls last week. Oh, no, um, I was like, say this several times. And she did it like she was performing. I think she’s a huge ham. It’s amazing. So if you haven’t played this game before, it’s just a fun kind of way to get to know each other. Know, knows know each other story a little bit better. With the time, John and I aren’t going to have any truce and ally. So I’ll Vamp a little bit, but I know right?

Apache Danforth 1:26:03
Talking about quality.

Ryan Freng 1:26:07
They just want to hear you anyway, they don’t want to hear our stories. So the idea is that you’re going to tell us three stories, and two of them are going to be truths, and one is one of them’s going to be a lie. We’re not going to know which one they are. And we’re gonna guess and the people at home are gonna guess as well, and it’ll help us get to know you just a little bit better. You want to stump us and anybody who guesses at home, we’re tracking it. And once we get our coasters, we’ll send you some coasters. So that’s, that’s your gift for coming on and playing the game with us.

Apache Danforth 1:26:41
All right, I’m trying to think here. I just got one.

Ryan Freng 1:26:45
That’s okay. Yeah, you can you can think I can keep vamping. We do have Rob coming on. In a few weeks. Let me check the schedule. Rob has been on a couple of times. He’s a good friend and colleague. Let’s see when I’ve got him. I don’t have him on this schedule. He’s over on this schedule. We had a golf outing that he had to duck out a very we’re gonna rob in a couple of weeks. July 2, I believe we’ve got Rob. So that’ll be fun. That’d be a 4pm. That’s our schedule right now. I’m assuming that’s still happening. Unless Emily texted me and tells me it’s not. That’ll be awesome. Rob pero. You’ve seen him before. He is the namesake of paradigm studio. Creative Studio. What are they? I don’t know what paradigm is called.

Apache Danforth 1:27:39
I think it’s just paradigm. I don’t know where design studio. Yeah,

Ryan Freng 1:27:42
it’s, that’s probably their legal name. But yeah, they’re, like us. Yeah, like we’re like backflip Film Productions, LLC. But now we’re more of a general agency. So we’re just backflip or backflip, creative marketing, doing business as those types of things. So it looks like you’re ready. Yep. So I

Apache Danforth 1:28:01
just gotta tell you these three things, and you’re gonna tell me which one’s the truth and which one’s a lie, right?

Ryan Freng 1:28:06
Yep, we’re gonna guess the lie. And the people at home can guess too. And if you guess, if you guess right, you’ll get a gift.

Apache Danforth 1:28:15
Okay, so, okay, I went skydiving. I’m 47 years old and I have a master’s degree

Ryan Freng 1:28:31
I’m just writing these down. Alright, I like to make John go first. Because then I can hear his thought process. Easily. Yeah, 47 years old. I’m not gonna guess that one. It’s like Brian Regan has a joke. And my wife has lived this. It’s like never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever guess if a woman is pregnant, pregnant?

John Shoemaker 1:29:01
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You’re like,

Ryan Freng 1:29:05
when’s the baby? Do? You just can’t get that back? As soon as you start saying, yeah.

John Shoemaker 1:29:10
Very, very quick. Tangent. Is that not common knowledge in culture that you don’t ask if somebody’s pregnant. Like, when you’re in a family where you’ve had five children? Like, there’s a lot of having a baby. And then there’s time after the baby and working toward, you know,

Ryan Freng 1:29:34
we’re not even having a baby. You can

John Shoemaker 1:29:35
Yeah, and I cannot like, I cannot believe how many times my wife has been like, Yeah, somebody asked that, you know, like, Oh, are you praying and I’m just like, do people not like, I feel like I learned this as soon as I was like a teenager was like, Listen, son, one of the things you need to know for life, girl and my dad was like, I don’t know, Bill Clinton. Like I don’t like. Yeah. Anyway. Okay, so I’ve

Apache Danforth 1:30:04
done that myself. I’ve done that myself. And it was very I was, I was very embarrassed.

John Shoemaker 1:30:11
If anyone’s so sorry for you. Here’s some advice my dad gave me. He said, Ask people. How’s the family doing? Yeah, yeah.

Apache Danforth 1:30:24
Your dad was Bill Clinton, right?

John Shoemaker 1:30:26
Let them offer you the information if they want to share it.

Apache Danforth 1:30:32
Very diplomatic.

Ryan Freng 1:30:34
Tip of the day, ask how’s the family?

John Shoemaker 1:30:38
Okay, so, I know the political question the political guests I should make is, it’s also the actual guests I’m gonna make. The political guests is 47 is a lie. That’s there’s no way. There’s no way you’re 47. Much.

Ryan Freng 1:31:00
Let’s see. So I also Yeah, I want skydiving. And I feel like you have a master’s degree that that should that checks out in my random thought process. And I like to think you’ve gone skydiving because I would like to go skydiving. So yeah, I’m gonna say you’re definitely not 47 years old. In a good way.

Apache Danforth 1:31:24
I thought I’ve ever been skydiving before.

Ryan Freng 1:31:26
Oh, we should have gone.

Apache Danforth 1:31:31
I don’t think I want to go. Well, she’s kind of not she’s kind of not fair. But I’m gonna bust her out like that.

Ryan Freng 1:31:37
Well, we didn’t. We didn’t even listen to her. We chose her own. Yeah.

Apache Danforth 1:31:43
Well, good. She gets the prize, right? No. One listened the whole time.

Ryan Freng 1:31:49
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. So do we know please do text us? You can do it on Facebook and send us your address, and we can send you some good stuff.

John Shoemaker 1:31:59
What’s the what’s the master’s degree?

Apache Danforth 1:32:03
Public Relations? from Kent State? Yeah.

Ryan Freng 1:32:06
And I don’t think just to bring it full circle. I don’t know that we got back to when it happened. But when did you get your name from your your grandma?

Apache Danforth 1:32:14
Oh, I was. I was, like, 17. Yeah, really?

Ryan Freng 1:32:19
Yeah. So before you were professionally doing all this stuff? Yep. Yeah, it’s amazing. Ah, that’s cool. I

Apache Danforth 1:32:26
think I think about that, too. I think that’s really cool.

Ryan Freng 1:32:30
Yeah, like, did it set you on on a path to this? Or was that something that you know, they could just see in you? I don’t know could be. That’s awesome. It works for

Apache Danforth 1:32:43
me. I’m glad.

Ryan Freng 1:32:45
Mina, Edwina also didn’t know you had a master’s degree, so that’s fine. Um, yeah. So that’s, that’s our show for today. Is there anything we can promote? For you?

Apache Danforth 1:32:59
Well, that’s interesting that you asked, because my partner and I just started a carpet cleaning business. Okay. And we’re located or run on the Green Bay. So if this is backwards, Brightstar cleaners. I’ll see. Shameless. Yep, it’s Brightstar cleaners. gb.com.

Ryan Freng 1:33:23
Here we go. I got you ready for this? Oh, yes.

Apache Danforth 1:33:28
For the company, we’ve been just started up in April and kind of a dream, manifested this company while we were in the pandemic, and pulled the pull the trigger on it as launched in April. And it’s been pretty good. Pretty steady. So awesome. Awesome. Continue.

Ryan Freng 1:33:51
You’re a woman of many, many talents there. Yes.

Apache Danforth 1:33:54
Yes. Well, I have a partner. I’m only part part of this half of the business. So he does the hard work.

Ryan Freng 1:34:02
That’s how I want to do it. I want to do the thinking and then someone else can do the hard work. I get

Apache Danforth 1:34:09
to do like the website and the Facebook and the fun stuff. So

Ryan Freng 1:34:13
nice. Yeah, the public relations. That’s great.

Apache Danforth 1:34:16
I do. I have gone on a couple of jobs. He says I need to learn more. But I have done a couple jobs. And it is definitely

Ryan Freng 1:34:24
just tell him he needs to work harder. Yeah. Well, that’s awesome. Yeah. So like I said, we got Rob coming up in two weeks, I believe it is. Next week, we might do a host of all or we haven’t done one of those in a while where we hang out and talk about things that are going on with us. So tune in for that. Thank you Apache so much for coming on. And I know you mentioned in the beginning, you know just not knowing kind of what’s going on. You are nervous, but like this has been such an awesome conversation. And I can’t wait till we do the next one because now we start with this report that we have which is

Apache Danforth 1:34:58
yeah It’ll be later. Do you ever go later? Do we do like, yeah.

Ryan Freng 1:35:04
Well, we are thinking of moving it later for that sake. You know, like, it was kind of easy to do at noon on a Friday, but like, there’s no reason we can’t do it like on a four o’clock or something. So, yeah, we’ll definitely schedule you for later one. Thank you. Awesome. All right, John, do you got anything else for me?

John Shoemaker 1:35:26
You just gotta educate yourself, you know, provide awareness and have discussions. That’s yeah.

Ryan Freng 1:35:32
It’s simple. It might not be easy, but

John Shoemaker 1:35:36
maybe that wasn’t my idea.

Ryan Freng 1:35:41
Write down below. That’s awesome. Yeah, thank you for tuning in. Thank you, Audrina. And that’s our show for today. Thanks, everybody, for watching. Check. Let’s back club.com/podcast. All this is going to be in our podcasts from now on. So yeah. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you next time. Bye. Good human being there. All right, same time.


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Ryan Freng
Owner and creative director. Shall we begin like David Copperfield? 'I am born...I grew up.' Wait, I’m running out of space? Ah crap, ooh, I’ve got it...