081 – Adam and Andrea Parikh
In this Happy Hour podcast, we’re chatting with Adam and Andrea Parikh about targeted advertising, their craziest ad placement, and TikTok.
- (8:46) Who are Adam and Andrea Parikh?
- (12:33) Digital out of home marketing.
- (16:02) Should you advertise in every medium?
- (18:23) Adam’s face on a billboard?
- (22:32) What is the craziest place Adam and Andrea have placed an ad?
- (32:40) Targeted advertising.
- (38:47) Nielsen’s MRC accreditation loss.
- (55:42) TikTok.
- (1:03:03) How does Backflip adapt it’s content depending on the advertising medium?
- (1:14:05) Two truths and lie.
Ryan Freng 4:00
Hello and welcome back to a another let’s backflip happy hour show. I almost forgot what the heck the title of this thing was there for a moment. I’m Ryan Freng one of your co creative directors here at backflip and Joining me as always is the steam double John Shoemaker what’s going on John?
John Shoemaker 4:15
Very steam steam nimble.
Ryan Freng 4:18
So esteem double. You just are you just regularly steamed today?
John Shoemaker 4:24
I wish I was it’s like cold in my basement. It’s cold enough that the weather is tricking the heater into not turning on.
Ryan Freng 4:34
Well, don’t worry tomorrow just suck all that air in from outside. It’s going to be amazing. So this is a happy hour. So we’ll introduce our drinks and then we’ll bring on the guests that you came to listen to or watch or to live interact with in just a moment, but we want to share what we’re drinking and then we’ll bring them on and they can show what they’re drinking. So what do you got? What are you got John, you go first.
John Shoemaker 4:57
Oh boy, how embarrassing. I’m hot water. So you got to have water. I mean, it’s the first Friday of Lent. Not that my no i My Lenten things. One of them is, you know, decrease the alcohol drinking. But, but I’ve created some boundaries, you know, outside of events and stuff. So I mean, I could count this as an event if I really wanted to.
Ryan Freng 5:29
Anyway, just not having five every lunch hour.
John Shoemaker 5:32
Yeah, yeah, yes. Just not. So yeah. Hot water. That’s really good. You’ll probably talk more about that. And then in here
Ryan Freng 5:44
in probably personal coffee 30
John Shoemaker 5:47
seconds. Well, it’s actually it’s rasa. Rasa rasa
Ryan Freng 5:52
ya know, that’s always had your own personal rasa.
John Shoemaker 5:54
I’m so clearly
Ryan Freng 5:57
very good marketers because we know the names of these products so well.
John Shoemaker 6:02
Well, that’s not even the brand or whatever. This one’s called Joy. Joy’s like, you’re at the golf.
Ryan Freng 6:11
This is going really well for us right now.
John Shoemaker 6:15
Yeah. So if you’re looking to if you want us to want to pay for a sponsorship with us, this is exactly how to get
Ryan Freng 6:24
nice. Alright, so you got some rocks and some hot water. Oh, this is good, too. I don’t know if you can hear now. Now. This is the hour of the day, I forgot that my water softener goes. So oh, I also have hot water.
John Shoemaker 6:35
Those probably can’t hear it. No, it’s probably too quiet.
Ryan Freng 6:40
I can I can hear it. And I hate every minute of it. I hate the sound of water. Like right in my ear. I’m also drinking hot water. Yeah, we’re kind of coming out of a season and into a new season. And with lens. I’m like, Yep, I’m gonna stop drinking for a little bit. So this is how I enjoy happy hours with things that remind me of the good old days of alcohol. Hot water is really really good. It’s basically just hops in waters adaptogens and new trap tropics and whatever. It’s all the marketing, all those words or no stuff.
John Shoemaker 7:11
All that’s made up. But that’s
Ryan Freng 7:13
not why you’re here. You’re here to see our guests, Adam and Andrea talk. So let’s go ahead and bring them on and say Hey, guys. Hey there. How are you guys doing?
Adam Parikh 7:24
Good. Doing well. Good. Thank you.
Ryan Freng 7:26
I’m so happy you’re able to survive that preamble. So why don’t you give us what are you guys drinking today? Would you bring I think I saw some glasses. They’re
Andrea Parikh 7:36
definitely not not just water. We’re drinking Domaine Carneros, which is a sparkling facility out in Napa was one of the first like wineries that we went to together. can’t speak enough good things about it. We love champagne, like love sparkling wine. love champagne. I wasn’t on it over. So that is a perfect way to end this Friday.
Ryan Freng 8:04
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know much about champagne. We’re doing a wine class with a friend of ours. So we’re in kind of the Bordeaux region region and doing French wines and things like that. And obviously real you know, champagne comes from Champagne. And then we have sparkling wines and bubbly from over here. But what what about champagne? Do you guys really really like you know what why is it your go to?
Andrea Parikh 8:27
I think it’s because it goes so well with like anything you eat and any it seems to be as that you can drink any time of day. But the thing that I personally love about it it is it’s like a marketer’s drink. It’s a it’s a dream, considered like something that you’re not supposed to drink. It was kind of like a mess up they, when the French kind of discovered it, they were like this wasn’t really supposed to happen. And they were trying to make it in a still wine. And then they were kind of like, well, let’s run with it. Let’s turn it into a celebration drink, let’s market the heck out of it. And, and that’s actually what they did. And now they’ve really kind of elevated that. And because of that I feel like there’s the marketing story that kind of is first original wine marketing story.
Ryan Freng 9:07
I love that so much because I know I believe like ice wines are similar or other desert wines, when I forget what that’s called, but that bacteria or that that fungus forms on the wine and desiccate or the grapes and designates it that happened. And then the winemakers were like, oh, no, the traveling administrator is going to come and test the wine. And this is not good wine. Just give it to the peasants. And it was so loved and went over so well. They’re like, Oh, no, no, no, this is really good wine. We need to save it for the royalty. So that’s another way of like things going wrong. And then you kind of turn it around it seems like a popular wine trope.
Andrea Parikh 9:46
Yeah, yeah, I think the whole like water out of wine thing or why not?
Somehow a manipulator will do whatever we need to do and slap a fancy label on it and there you go. So we got to make Get
John Shoemaker 10:00
work. All I heard was that you can pour it on cereal. So that’s right, right for sure. Yeah.
Ryan Freng 10:05
Yeah, that was the marketing.
Andrea Parikh 10:07
Right now. I think it turns green. So that’s what I’ve heard.
John Shoemaker 10:11
I think I probably have a bottle of wine upstairs and I’ve got a Soda Stream. So I’m thinking
Andrea Parikh 10:18
maybe it’s probably her. That’s called it. Yeah. So there you go. You
Ryan Freng 10:22
do you, whatever that takes. Yeah. So I do have a bio for you guys that I want to read. Just because that kind of gives, you know, people a sense of who you are, but then I just want to hear it from you guys. as well. So, Adam, and how do you say last name? Harrison, your your PeriK? Yes. Okay. So Adam PeriK has a 20 year career on the forefront of digital marketing. his deepest knowledge lies in paid digital media buying involving CTV, OTT pre roll, display and search. He is particularly adept at aligning non technical marketers and technical resources to set strategy and implement online marketing campaigns that meet and exceed goals. And it was also taught a graduate and undergraduate level internet marketing class at UW Milwaukee. After spending. Oh, all right. So that’s Adam, and I’ll let you go for you in a second. Now, this is Andrea. After spending the past five years in New York as a VP of Product Marketing, focusing on the evolution of mobile measurement and programmatic solutions for Clear Channel outdoor Andrea, and I forgot how to say your last name already Pareek is glad to be applying her skills to the broader digital landscape with gigawatt media, your guyses company. At gigawatt, Andrea is focused on client services, brand development and project management plus opportunities for Team growth and education with a goal of making gigawatt, one of the best places to work in the Midwest. So that’s I mean, that’s pretty great. There’s a lot of stuff in here that I don’t know what it is. So just who are you guys? And what do you do?
Adam Parikh 12:00
Yeah, I mean, we’re, you know, we, we kind of Andrew and I met as a couple over professional organizations related to marketing and advertising. We both had, you know, careers, respective careers in our marketing fields. And, you know, from there, we both kind of elevated our careers in the last 10 years and took leadership positions, and from there, we, you know, set ourselves up to start our own business. So it’s just really about taking everything we’ve learned, you know, working for agencies and direct brands directly, and, and bringing it to our own set of clients.
Andrea Parikh 12:47
And we used to say, like, you worked for the newest form of media, because he worked in internet, SEO and all those things. That’s what his background was, and I was in our home. So I was in the oldest form of advertising. And as you know, our industries, as most of those traditional industries had to change, it was kind of bringing on forms of data and audiences and all those things. And so then I started playing more and more in your, in your space, and you were kind of like, Get out of my space. Like, can we not talk about media and marketing all the time, and just kind of evolved? And that’s kind of what I started to do more and more of, and then yeah, now we’re, we’re bringing that together? Yeah, that background of traditional media, internet media, but also huge and client services and understanding that, like, we had both had exposure to that larger level, like what big media companies can do, and kind of can bring the positives of that some of the process and, and value and team engagement, and we like to throw big parties and stuff like that, but then also just kind of focusing on client services, small business, some of that small business attention as well. So
Ryan Freng 13:54
are you telling me that you’re not sitting over like, Valentine’s dinner just discussing the ins and outs of tick tock?
Andrea Parikh 14:03
That I mean, we do have to cut that top talk. We both really enjoy it. I mean, that’s one of the things where, I mean, this morning, over coffee, we’re talking about Nielsen and what they’re doing with data and I was saying, I just saw something about what was going on at the AMA conferences, and it’s, then you’re kind of like packing your kids lunch and sending them off to school and focusing on you know, don’t just keep it together today, buddy, it’s the end of the week. Let’s just get over the goal line and come home and
Adam Parikh 14:31
yeah, it is interesting how our worlds kind of just kept creeping closer and closer and closer together. You know, traditional media had to kind of get with the times and plug into the sort of systems where media is bought and sold these days and right Riya was like on the forefront of that. So you know, we do a lot of digital out of home now. So she got sucked right back into it. And you know, the the The forms of media I buy, to really get, you know, to to relate to people that were used to buying traditional media, we had to sometimes relate things back to GRPs and TRPs, and share a voice and just the sorts of metrics and ways to communicate how this campaign may perform in more traditional means. So we just kind of our worlds just kept getting closer and closer until we’re essentially in the same space.
Ryan Freng 15:30
And you guys set a bunch of things there that I want to clarify, too. I think, like with digital or without of home, right, we can imagine what that is, like, an immediate thing would be like a billboard or, or a sign or something you see in a store or something like that. What What do you mean by digital out of home? Is it like a digital board? Or is that something else?
Andrea Parikh 15:49
Yeah, I mean, it can span everything from the digital billboard, to the gas station TV these days. And my expertise is definitely on what we call roadside and doing street furnitures. And there’s digital transit shelters in San Francisco. And there’s digital kiosks that, you know, also give off Wi Fi in New York, which is very interesting when you see what people choose to deal with public Wi Fi in New York. So yeah, but those, you know, those are the way to reach people that are out on the street. And then and then there’s your getting as granular as the signs and in your gyms and your top golf now has like a contract with a lot of programmatic advertisers. And if you wanted to speak to golf enthusiasts, that’s a really good place to be.
Adam Parikh 16:34
Yeah. So I mean, there’s some really interesting forums, too. There’s a company called a Domi shout out, Jonathan, good die. They they enable digital signs on the tops of Ubers. Even so you can get you can get on the top of an Uber on the top of a taxi, you know, within, you know, hours.
Ryan Freng 16:56
So it’s interesting,
John Shoemaker 16:57
because I don’t, I don’t think I see them. And I think to myself, Oh, that’s a good idea. But I don’t ever, I haven’t investigated about like, how to get on there. And I think I think Adam and your when you were talking last month to the American advertising club for Madison, then you were talking about some like, I don’t know what the correct term is, but some sort of like all in one solutions to be like, I want to just place ads, you know, like, and I want them to be in various locations.
Adam Parikh 17:37
Yeah, so that’s, that’s called a demand side platform. Some of the big names out there are the trade desk, Xander, media math. And, you know, initially, these things were set up just to place banner ads, right, like you just put in a banner ad and you could put it on ESPN or, you know, cnn.com, things like that. But as as as you know, you know, video became big, right things like, you know, mobile for mobile, 4g, cellular broadband, you know, as people’s internet connections got better. And the publishers got wise that they can make more money off of richer formats. Because their subscriber bases were being slashed, right? By newspapers, things like that they needed to make more money digitally. They enabled, you know, more advanced, you know, richer forms of media on their site. And eventually, right, it’s, it’s a very, very traditional tech, kind of roadmap, right? There’ll be a niche player, right, just specializing in mobile, just specializing in, in video, and they get bought up and kind of integrated into larger platforms, and it just becomes more standardized. So it is pretty cool to be able to buy four or five, six different formats of media in just one interface. It’s pretty cool.
Ryan Freng 19:11
Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder, too, you know, and maybe we’ll, we’ll get to the the technical side of it, too. But I wonder, like, what is the, the biggest challenge with all this because there’s so many opportunities, right? You could do everything, but should you do everything? You know, we dabbled in radio, and, you know, we didn’t see a ton of success in radio until we got a giant client and then we’re like, Okay, well, that balances it out, you know, the effort is not huge. So let’s try that again. So we’re going to try radio again, and other, you know, other media mediums that we’ve used before, you know, to varying success. What what’s kind of your just mental approach when when thinking about these things, is it you know, okay, I have a budget of this much so I and do all 20 things? Or really let’s focus in or I don’t know, you got to make it up and figure out what, what works with the client and, you know, use for your spaces.
Adam Parikh 20:11
Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s, you know, that really comes down to media planning, which is a very, you know, established kind of practice, right. And media planning, you know, media buying isn’t new, it’s so I think that is, you know, you’re onto a good point where you do have to go back into good plans, using formats to their best, you know, what they’re battling out to their best strengths, and understanding well, how many people could you reach and modeling, if that’s going to be effective for you? So, you know, people, you know, that it’s easy to think that digital is some sort of precision, you know, scalpel, and it can be at times, but it is still media, people are still people and need enough ad exposures, you need the great sorts of creative, you know, that, that, you know, people like BakFlip put out to engage the consumer and communicate your message. So, you know, it is new, but everything new is still old, right? You need to have a good shorea And you have to have good creative, you know, and and if you’re not doing that, then it’s you’re not going to get the results you want. Yeah.
John Shoemaker 21:36
I wanted to get that phrase with like your face, like up on a billboard.
Ryan Freng 21:40
Yeah. Adam and gigawatt sponsors this message.
Andrea Parikh 21:47
Before, which is a whole nother story.
Ryan Freng 21:50
You have had your face on a billboard? Mm hmm. Well, Oh, yes. This is the time for storytime. Yes. Well,
Adam Parikh 21:56
it all kind of traces back to Andrea before she got kicked upstairs from the Milwaukee branch of Clear Channel to the New York corporate branch where she got put in the big leagues. She did an amazing events where she worked like 46 out of 48 hours straight, it was wild. They rented out one of the spaces at the Harley Davidson Museum, took a frickin bus, they put a bus in there. They put a transit shelter in there. And then another component was you somebody you just stand in front of a camera. So with a digital camera, they put your take your picture, and then put upload that right up to a digital board on i 94. And then and then all the digital boards are enabled with webcams because you got to have this proof of performance or whatever. And so just take a picture. Yeah. So send them out. Yeah, So lo and behold, my face was on a on a billboard. And they took a quick webcam snapshot and emailed it to me it was really, really cool. Yeah.
Ryan Freng 23:08
Oh, that’s awesome. So the webcam, proof of performance means that it’s actually working that you can see that what what you expect is up there. Okay. Yeah. So
Adam Parikh 23:17
one one part of your even traditional out of home buy is they’ll have people kind of cruise the markets and take pictures of, of boards and fun fact. Andrea was a part of a really cool was that Fourth of July campaign. Yeah. That was
Andrea Parikh 23:37
a broadcast the Star Spangled Banner all over the United States. Yeah, it was like, every digital board in the US was flipping through the Oh, wow. The Star Spangled Banner. And if you went to, you know, United fourth.com You got to hear Ingrid Michaelson seeing a version of the Star Spangled Banner. Yeah. Oh,
Adam Parikh 23:56
wow. Yeah, the fun part is be pulled off the freeway during rush hour. So she could take pictures of the board by Miller Park. And she’s like, and says and snapping shots and like this is why that’s awesome. Yeah.
Ryan Freng 24:11
We’ve worked on a campaign over the last 18 months and there’s a we worked with a turning up media in Colorado and they did the out of out of home stuff. But it’s great because we got to create work that was on billboards on these trucks you know, you’re probably aware of those just just trucks with a sign on it. And other other truck wraps and things like that. And when we’re driving around the area, we totally pull over, stop get out, take photos, get the drone out, fly it because then we use that to market it as well.
Andrea Parikh 24:44
Yeah, yeah, there was a I think a program that we did for Disney one time that required a drone over the Sunset Strip, but the amount of legal permits and things like that you need to pull in order to put a drone on the Sunset Strip was like really interesting in terms of the connections but you But it was it’s definitely a very interesting industry, the more you get into it, the people that used to paint signs that are now the people that put up the signs and things like that. That’s more from the traditional sense. But yeah, we were trying to show like the immediacy of of digital in terms of because that was when it was brand new people are like, how can you take? How does this get up there so quickly? So, yeah, that’s corny. Essentially, I mean, the, the way that they’re set up, it’s essentially like taking your 72 inch TV, even the pixels, because the LED is like when you look at a panel, they’re really far apart. So it’s nothing more than a big TV just kind of blown up in a way even that same. Tech is kind of used in a sense. So
John Shoemaker 25:42
what’s the what’s the craziest place that you’ve placed an ad? Have you? You know, you hear these stories every now and then about like, somebody selling their forehead or I think I might have been like Klondike or something. That’s where like some if someone was willing to name their child that that they would get like recon.
Adam Parikh 26:06
I have one. I have one. So it’s not digital, but it’s really, really smart. So when I was I was at Hanson dodge here in Milwaukee, getting introduced to agency life. There is what’s his name? He was a 800 meter runner here in the States. He’s from Oregon. I’m blanking on his name. But he got a he got a bronze medal in 2012 Summer Olympics. Anyway, he’s a very progressive thinker, right? Because he’s not satisfied with the status quo, right? Like, for instance, if you run for team USA Track, you have to be Nike person, right? But you were sponsored by others, and he didn’t like being forced into that box. And he wasn’t happy that you couldn’t have sponsorship on your clothing. So what he did is he sold a temporary tattoo space for $10,000 on his arm. So So when when he put that out into the universe, a very smart social media strategist, Mike was new ski here in town. He saw that and he had Hanson dodge, which at the time was pitched as America’s active lifestyle, leading active lifestyle agency, they actually bought that sponsorship. And that that generated hundreds of 1000s of dollars in PR, right. New York Times picked it up. So yeah, alright, so as you know, so a tattoo on somebody an Olympic runners arm. That is that is the most interesting space I’ve somewhat sort of been a part of, of purchasing.
Ryan Freng 28:02
Yeah, what would it cost? To get like a real great neck tattoo for on one of you guys? What do you think you’d sell that for? Oh,
Adam Parikh 28:12
I don’t know. Maybe 5 million. What does a lake house cost? There’s a lot of costs.
Ryan Freng 28:17
So alright, let’s let’s start the negotiation. You said 5 million. I’ll say $50.
John Shoemaker 28:22
Adam Parikh 28:23
the middle is 2.5. So
Ryan Freng 28:29
wait, I’ve done this all wrong? Andrea, you never answered it. How much for like a partial face to face tattoo.
Andrea Parikh 28:36
I think. Oh, I don’t even know if I would have
Adam Parikh 28:42
winery in Napa.
Andrea Parikh 28:43
Right, exactly. A slice of vineyard in France like.
John Shoemaker 28:49
I mean, once you get to the point of selling away your reputation, Rep. Reputation? Yeah, you’re basically just like, Okay, well, it’s got to be a number that I don’t need to do anything else. I don’t have to ever go into another meeting where somebody needs to take me seriously.
Adam Parikh 29:07
If it’s counted, if it was like black, black, black lady that only showed up under best. We could talk.
Ryan Freng 29:16
They only shows when you’re in the clubs. You know, listening to EDM. You mentioned wine, there are vineyards. It made me think there is I forget the type of wine in France. But the it’s got a very specific designation, and it’s got either like the village name or another name on it. Carolyn, if you’re on, shout it out, let me know. And you’re like, what was it? I mean, like Chablis or you might it’s in that class of like a Shibley. Yeah, cuz I think we were drinking. We had like a fake Chablis essentially. So it’s like one of that style of wine and these vineyards You can actually get, you know, an area, a row, you can have, like one plant and make wine out of one plant, which I don’t know, that seems kind of fun. So maybe I could get you one plant for the face tattoo.
Andrea Parikh 30:15
There you go. Yeah. Okay, and wouldn’t have like a plant on it too, because I feel like that would kind of get a little bit.
Ryan Freng 30:23
It’s a part of your marketing. Yeah, for your wine. I mean, once you know, once you get to a comfortable place where you have headspace, then you gotta come up with that commodity business, you know, you should probably be producing some kind of wine. And then you can market the heck out of it, even if it doesn’t taste good, you know?
Andrea Parikh 30:39
Yeah. I’m trying to think back to like your question about, like, where’s the craziest place to advertise? And I don’t even know if I could. Like that, to me would be the ultimate like in terms of like, tattooing yourself for what people do with brands all the time. Right? Or your mother. But I don’t know. There’s definitely there’s a technology out there now where they
Ryan Freng 31:01
wait, what was that? You do that all your time, like, you know, and your mother
Andrea Parikh 31:06
brands and things all the time and their mother? I would think if there’s things that are probably things that are you know, I’ve seen a lot I’ve seen some like Sailor Jerry tattoos and Captain Morgan’s? Oh, yeah, like that. And like dedications, I’ve seen the Apple symbol. But that seems to be like, those would be like key things that people would tattoo brands and your mother, something about your mother or your girlfriend or something like that. But there is that one of the things that I think is crazy, too, is there’s going to be technology out there that can detect whether or not like a male or female is like approaching a sign. Or like if it’s a human or a dog or things like that, and it’ll show different types of advertising. They’re doing a lot more of that in Europe. So when
John Shoemaker 31:49
I saw them in Minority Report, I think yeah,
Ryan Freng 31:53
Andrea Parikh 31:54
Yeah. And when it comes to like, customizing those messages, or kind of like reaching out, just keep people I think that one that is really interesting. It is they’re, they’re definitely trialing it and working on it more. And I’m more interested, like, in what people are doing with the stuff that’s already there. Versus like, where?
Ryan Freng 32:12
Yeah, well, we and that’s, that can get really scary. And I think that’s fascinating. But it’s this weird, this weird thing, like, do we want it? Or do we not want it cuz John and I talked about it all the time, like, when we first came out, and I’m like, I’m like watching cartoons on Hulu. You know, like anime, or Rick and Morty, or like that style of cartoon, you know, kind of like, dude, in his basement cartoon, we’re getting feminine product ads. And I would get like three in a row. And I was like, hey, just providing some feedback, love the service, the ads are not relevant at all. They’re like, sorry, this is the only advertiser we have kind of in this space. And I was like, okay, not not useful, you know, to me, so provide that feedback to whoever. So there’s that side of not getting relevant advertising. But then it can be very creepy. I forgot it was the other day, my wife was talking to someone about some product or something. And then she pulls up Instagram, and she’s getting ads for it. And it’s like, Ooh, this is this is creepy. And all the, you know, are they listening aside which it sounds like they’re not they just have a good profile of us such that they, you know, can kind of understand what we’re what we’re looking into. But I like the very direct marketing, as long as it’s anonymized to a degree like, I don’t know, I don’t get advertised any weird stuff. So I don’t I don’t have any, you know, like, shame. And if somebody were to see the ads I get, but like, Is that is that good? Is it bad? Is it scary? You know, I think the relevancy is super useful. But I don’t know, you guys, you guys are much more in this space.
Adam Parikh 33:53
It sounds like it’s better than not useful ads, you know? Yeah. You know, the, you know, there’s always a trade off for ad supported media. And would you rather have irrelevant ads or relevant ads? That’s really, you know, I try to distill it down to some sort of yes or no question. So
Andrea Parikh 34:10
I think one of the things that concerns me more, I mean, I, I would say that one of the things that I loved about the, the opportunities that I had with Clear Channel was I got to look into data and privacy a lot. And so when we worked with companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, they have very, very strict state like with Apple, they were very, very, because one of the things that we’re applying with outdoor right now is mobile data telling us a little bit about people going by billboards, anonymized aggregated, you know, we want to know if one billboard reaches Starbucks customers more than another billboard that reaches you know, people who go to Target and things like that, or, or blue collar workers or things so it’s, it’s all on that larger level. But when we talked to Apple about, you know, doing some measurement and what they were doing, I mean, there were so many Different things that we’ve talked with, with their lawyers and the legal hoops and what we’re using the data for, and making sure that was going through all these filters. And I just really appreciate that, that they set that very high standard. And I still talk about that when we’re talking with many of our advertisers that I know that people have different views about that company in different ways. But the experience that I had was extremely sensitive when it came to any of that information, being public or being utilized in the incorrect way. And I think that that is something to be said, for those companies that are constantly fighting that battle. But I think one of the things that we have to watch for is just advertising to kids, because I feel like as adults, we can make a little bit more of that the smart decision, but with advertising with kids, that’s one thing that I think that we have to be careful for. So
John Shoemaker 35:50
there’s a there’s a trust factor that is very important there like, you know, if you try to boil things down, always to the most simple level, you know, like, I tell my neighbor, who I am and about me and what I do and what time I’m going to be at home and things like that, and whatever, because we kind of know each other, and I Yeah, that’s great, because he can let me know, hey, yeah, there was like a delivery truck at your house today, you know. But then if you found out later that he told somebody else, like all the detailed information, and then somebody you didn’t know, came up to you and was like, Yeah, I know, you know who you are. And like that. You’ve gotten this many kids and whatever. Like, okay, that’s a little. Yeah. And like, it doesn’t seem it’s a difficult conversation. Because like, again, Ryan, I like we work in the space, not in the same space, but like, crafting the message. And you’re like, it doesn’t seem that big deal. But there’s areas where it can become a big deal, certainly in politics, where the crop, the crossover between marketing and politics. And then like you said, with kids, even adults to some extent, because I think about I’m like, Well, we’re we’re talking about psychology, we’re talking about influencing the way that somebody thinks about something. So then the responsibility falls to the content creator, like, is the thing that I’m trying to get people to, you know, go for? Is it? Is it good? Like, is it worthy of their attention? Right?
Adam Parikh 37:32
Yeah, I mean, an example of where things I guess went too far is you are no longer so there’s a form of targeting called geofencing. Related to it’s basically enabled by your phone, right? You have GPS enabled apps, you know, like Gas Buddy and a number of other apps, right? And kind of your, you know, when you’re using it, you’re actually consenting to share your location advertisers. So so you can geofence right. So if somebody’s been to a McDonald’s, you can you can say that, and Burger King can send you an offer, right via via a mobile app. But you, you know, as of like, 2022, you’re no longer allowed to geofence churches, because as you mentioned, we were talking about politics in the last election cycle. You know, there were there were Canton their candidates, you know, incumbent presidents geofencing target, because they had, you know, there’s, you know, more of a faith based message, a values based message. And there was statistics saying that, you know, churchgoers in certain states had a low voting rate. So they wanted to kind of spur that crowd to to vote. People didn’t like that they didn’t like their their visitation to their place of worship, you as a data point to advertise. So they communicated enough to the data providers to disallow that now.
Ryan Freng 39:23
Yeah, is there a mechanism for that too? Because it seems like you know, anyone could come up with anything like, yeah, I don’t want my my information going into a city location being shared or my fast food habits or you know, less innocuous things. But it’s probably not enough people to raise a stink for any any one of those items, I imagine.
Adam Parikh 39:46
Yeah, I mean, here in America are a bit more free market. So you have to do a lot more pushback to get what you want. As you know, places like Europe, or a lot more progressive GDP, you know, GDPR, which is the European data privacy laws, you know, they they tend to, to to act and a little bit better on behalf of of their population, right.
Ryan Freng 40:10
Which essentially cascaded because anyone who’s International, you know, you see it everywhere, even if they’re not a European company. And it’s, you know, to the point where are HubSpot numbers, or Google ad targeting and numbers, like, all that specificity and targeting and numbers just was like, you know, we saw a lot of detailed information originally with how we could even be like, What are they doing on the website? Okay, let’s reach out and try to, you know, try to see if we can help them with this. So, you know, good, good intentions, right. But that doesn’t mean, someone’s not going to do do bad things with that information. But then, yeah, recently, you know, we go down from Okay, here’s 10 groups who’ve been working, like checking out your website to like, here’s to, yeah, thanks. Thanks. Privacy Protection.
Adam Parikh 40:59
Yeah, it’s made, it’s made attribution. Really difficult and more complicated these days? For sure. You know, that’s definitely a resounding message. I’ve heard from all the marketing people that I’ve talked to you in the last year or two.
Ryan Freng 41:15
Yeah, and we do have a little chatter, Steve, Steve PS, maybe. Says Nick Simmons, is that the athlete? Yeah,
Adam Parikh 41:24
Ryan Freng 41:25
You’re thinking about that. Steve, you’re still here. We’re giving you mad cred for helping us out with that. It seems like Andrew has something you said earlier, you said that, talking about you were talking about Nielsen. I know, John had talked about this a while ago. But maybe John, you could talk about what you saw, where there was an article about discovering that what was it the Nielsen data was not as reliable as we thought it was, or something to that effect?
John Shoemaker 41:57
Well, I’m sure that the two of you could speak to it much better than I could. But yeah, basically, was that Nielsen had lost some sort of accreditation.
Adam Parikh 42:08
Andrea Parikh 42:09
John Shoemaker 42:10
And in their numbers. And, and it was funny, because it doesn’t alarm me, I’m not buying media. It actually was something that I’ve always been thinking about, like, how silly it is that, you know, people were able to like price certain ads, like the way that they were, you know, Ryan and I came up in the very much, you know, digital being prevalent, and traditional ad buy, or TV ad time is still there. But just like, there’s a huge, like, I’m still watching over the air channels, but I’m watching them through YouTube TV now. Like, I don’t even go over to the, like antenna input of my TV, unless the internet is down. And I have like, a game or something, you know? So, yeah, it’s just, it’s to me when I heard that, or, you know, somebody was talking about that I was just kind of my reaction is like, you’re like, Yeah, that makes sense. But yeah, I don’t know. Tell me more about what, what’s going on there. And you know what that was all about? Yeah, if
Ryan Freng 43:23
it even makes a difference.
Andrea Parikh 43:25
I mean, I would say that they’ve been a lot of the like, the large players, your Comcast and Paramount and all those that are trying to kind of understand like how they can a project, what their true ratings are, and that to advertisers, because that’s a lot of dollars for them. But then advertisers are also trying to understand like what those what they are actually buying, they’ve all kind of felt that Nielsen has been a little bit off for a long time. And whether it’s whether it’s they didn’t really evolve with the technology, or there’s, you know, whatever. They’re just, they don’t take the right approach. I mean, it’s a huge behemoth corporation trying to kind of take move themselves into a new future. And sometimes smaller companies and different people and different approach can be better versus the old way of doing things. And so I think that they kind of got a little bit lost, and they’re behind. The biggest. I think there’s definitely, companies are trying to solve for that. They’re saying, like, here’s our Nielsen ratings. And then here’s also kind of what we’re seeing. NVC is really the biggest one kind of pushing that forward trying to say like, here’s what our data is also saying, which has also been admitted involved. You know, they’re not just saying, here’s our stuff there. Have other parties that are kind of vetting it. I think the biggest thing that Nielsen is challenged with and I think this is something that came up a lot recently, especially in today’s world is the whole minority ethnic racial audiences and how they’re reporting those because they don’t, they don’t have a good pulse on that. Whether you’re talking about it How to Deal with businesses that have a better understanding of how to buy those types of audiences and what their media habits are. And like maybe they’re kind of setting new rules for the industry. Or you’re talking about the Nielsen providing that metrics, and they made it but maybe just don’t have a good, they don’t have enough of them reporting, they aren’t gathering the information correctly. I think that’s really the biggest challenge right now for advertisers. Does that make sense? Does that like
Adam Parikh 45:29
it and you think about how Nielsen collects at least the TV data, right, like you’re trying to find a representative sample of households across America, and monitor their set top? Consumption? Right. All that is, how does that right like, well, what if, you know, like, we’re all sitting around watching YouTube, on our phones and things like that. So, you know, we got a letter about being a part of a Nielsen panel, right? They do that for TV. They do that for radio, there’s people meters, things like that. So it’s, you know, they’re trying to use a very old way to, to, to measure a massive shift in the way that we consume data, or media, we’re all sitting on the couch watching something, right. That’s, we’ve been doing that for the last 100 years. But yeah, just undisputed. But the pipes, the pipes in which the media comes to us have radically changed, right? It used to be like you said, you’re saying antenna, I don’t know anybody that uses the antenna anymore. It’s more and more difficult to find people that subscribe to regular cable, you know, just because of the liberties that these cable cable providers have taken in jacking up their prices and, and things like that, and not giving you choice, right? You know, maybe you don’t want the Lifetime Channel, maybe you don’t want ESPN, but you’re still paying for it. Right? So this roll your own bundle, your own stuff is a lot more attractive to consumers. And therefore I think it’s much more difficult to measure through those previous mechanisms.
Ryan Freng 47:10
You know, my my TV, actually, it had a message, it’s an LG TV, about tracking your usage. And I think I turned it off, just because it kind of freaked me out. And I think it also has a microphone and uses that to try and interpret if you’re like actually watching or not, and things like that. And, um, you know, that just seemed like it was too new to me. I was like, I don’t know if I trust that LG TV. So I turned that off. But likely then if I use their services, I’m getting less relevant ads.
Adam Parikh 47:44
Well, funny story. Andrea and I were discussing a pretty serious matter within kind of the sphere of our lives, through some people that we know some pretty serious subjects. And our Samsung smart refrigerator suggested that we reach out to a mental health professional.
Andrea Parikh 48:04
Oh my gosh, if you need help, oh my gosh, please. And we’re like
Adam Parikh 48:12
somebody that we know going through some serious stuff, and we’re just talking to people, right? And our fridge like, oh my gosh, hold us to get some help.
Ryan Freng 48:21
And you come on, Sammy, if you’re gonna listen, listen,
Andrea Parikh 48:25
right? Like if you’re on your device, and you’re browsing for things, that’s one thing and it comes up later. I’m pretty sure what’s on my fridge going. Okay, psychology. So it was really interesting that is once we figured out like how but we do. Reg, we didn’t turn any of that off. We can I can go right here and do my grocery list. It’s just incredible and have it on my phone. I don’t like you can have that data. I do buy a lot of Cheetos. It’s okay.
Ryan Freng 49:00
Not ashamed. Hashtag. Yeah, sorry. That’s all
John Shoemaker 49:05
I think like, what you what you expect what you think. You know, you’ve agreed to what you think it is. Things are capable of like, you’re like, Yeah, that’s fine, like grocery list connected Wi Fi connectivity, whatever that makes sense. But you’re not anticipating certain things. And when they do certain things and you’re like, Oh, you’re collecting more data than I thought this was capable of like, maybe you’d be okay with it. If you knew it. If it was like oh, by the way, it listens to your conversations in the kitchen. And if you
Ryan Freng 49:40
need to adjust mental health services when you need
Andrea Parikh 49:43
it, right. Please cook the dinner then to like make the show up without the prioritizing we’ve heard before about how they’ve taken away some sort of feature in Uber about the tipping. Like they used to have this Used to be able to see how much they were going to tip you up front. And so people would like prioritize which Uber they’re going to pick up and deliver.
Ryan Freng 50:07
Andrea Parikh 50:08
it kind of taken that away. And a lot of times people wouldn’t put in the tip because they would want to have the food arrive hot or whatever.
Ryan Freng 50:17
And see all the experiences. Yeah. Yeah. And
Andrea Parikh 50:19
then and then tip afterwards, but because the overdrive and then there was this tip, changing too, right. So people will put in, like, I’m gonna tip 20 bucks. And then after they did it, they would be like, Ah, here’s dollars. So people kind of figured out that system that that we were driver would pick up that food and bring it to ya. So anyway, that’s, again, one of my, like, stories, I think we talked about the guy that was trying to pick up a handle a Hennessy or something like that, in some market where you can deliver liquor, it was a funny story or smart.
Ryan Freng 50:46
Yeah. Right. So this, this kind of gets, it’s kind of touches on that experience, or not the Uber experience with refrigerator experience. And then the craziest place you placed media before too, but like with data, and I loved I think in one of the other descriptions, we have, like, programmatic digital marketing, right? So I mean, that’s, that’s great. Because, you know, if you had to go and and place everything, we wouldn’t get enough content out there in the right places. So to do it programmatically, takes takes that and does it more intelligently, like we’re discussing? What is the we’ll start this whole topic off? Like, what is one of the, I don’t know, maybe craziest type of targeting, you’ve done right? So we’re talking about driving by billboards. I know, trouble. Wisconsin was talking to us about knowing, you know, when somebody’s been to a restaurant, and then they when they come back into Wisconsin, and then sending them an ad, or something like that, like, Hey, welcome back, you know, come check us out again, and things like that. Which again, you’re like, That’s kind of creepy, but also kind of great, because yeah, I will go back to that restaurant that I love. So what’s like the craziest level of targeting that at one point, you’re like, Am I like inside the matrix seeing behind the coach? Are we seeing any of this? Is this okay, do I need an adult?
Adam Parikh 52:08
Gosh, that’s a great question. I mean, I’ve run a lot, a lot of campaigns in my day. So I’m just trying to think of some of the oddballs. You know, I’m struggling right now. Because, you know, people think that there’s just I always, I always use the example of like, left handed juggling unicycle riders or something, just because people, really, they think there’s a data point for everything. And there’s definitely a lot of data points out there. Even like weather triggered data points. Now, too, I was just looking that up, if it’s sunny, if it’s rainy, you can you can trigger these messages. There’s there’s data providers, where like, if a certain commercial runs, or your commercial runs, you can mirror like the digital buy, because people you know, use multiple screens at once. Um, you know, like, sometimes, you know, I’ve worked in a more open environment where we would try to take any campaign possible, not our agency, previous agencies, but you know, like, people trying to advertise, you know, firearms or things like that, where you couldn’t do firearms, but you could do gun stocks or, or things like that. Um, that’s, that’s a really good question. I’m going to try to think on that. In terms of targeting, I don’t know if you’ve had any outdoor campaigns that were at least lackey products, and I’ll kind of try to think on the targeting,
Andrea Parikh 53:35
we did have, there was a Cisco campaign in San Francisco that had billboards that would change based off the speed of traffic. So they had a camera on there that was recognizing how fast this traffic was going. And if it was going faster, the message would be shorter, like Cisco media moves at the speed of X mph. But if it was longer, it would be like now that you’re stuck in traffic, let me tell you all about how great Cisco is. And I had this whole litany on the building. That’s pretty cool. Like being able to adapt your message to the situation that people are sitting in that relevance thing is so critical from a creative and just a connection perspective. Yeah. I think what you were talking about what the weather trigger that is a very people don’t even realize how easy that is to do. But it’s a fairly easy thing to do and activate as well. So being able, I mean, Google would do this all the time for their Google Play service, where they’d have three or four songs featured, like they’d have like an album and a song featured. But if it was a sunny day, it would be like, you know, something very upbeat or whatever, California ish, and if it was a rainy day, it would be something a little bit more gloomy. So a little more Portland. Yes, exactly. The song would adapt to like kind of what was going on? I think you know, being relevant in that way, I think is really smart. But
Adam Parikh 55:03
yeah, I mean, there’s just a lot of ethical and moral questions when it comes to targeting to you know, healthcare is such a large sector. So should we be able to target based on medical conditions or not? You know, it’s,
Andrea Parikh 55:17
I mean, I personally like that, because I’m really sick of seeing the diabetes commercials like, right now. Oh, my gosh. Like, if you could just not, like kill my CTV time with the medical commercials that are not relevant. Give me another five years or so. But
John Shoemaker 55:33
I also don’t, you know, yeah, I like some of that data you wouldn’t want to share. But I think I mentioned this in that panel, too, that somebody needs to figure out how to identify that I did buy the product already. And then stop it. Like, right? Yeah. Yeah, I clicked on your ad, I went through the whole process, I bought the thing. It’s here. I’m still getting ads from the same thing that I like the act, you know, maybe competitors, I get that they would still be advertising but like, like, Yeah, is that
Ryan Freng 56:11
is that like a privacy thing? Because it seems like that’s, that’s like a level of information that the person who bought it or sold it to you might know, but it’s likely not connected to the ad system.
Adam Parikh 56:26
It’s the credit card selling your stuff, man. Yeah. Yeah, credit cards, so all your stuff,
Ryan Freng 56:33
and all that information.
Andrea Parikh 56:37
But it’s a little hard to connect that, you know, connect those dots. You’re right. Like, they’re depending on which channels you went to. I mean, that’s one of the biggest challenges where you’re like, Alright, I’m done. I bought, I bought the dishwasher, stop sending me the best buy on the dishwasher. It’s installed.
Adam Parikh 56:51
Or if you shop for people on Amazon, you know, it’s like, you know, you buy a gift for somebody, and it’s like, do you want this do you want? Oh, no, right.
Ryan Freng 56:59
Right. Well, and you know, that email marketing, you know, kind of makes more sense where Amazon knows, okay, I just bought this. So now, did you think about these things? And they’ll take it out of the rotation? But yeah, I’ll, I’ll be looking for a piece of equipment and the camera equipment. And then I’ll start getting b&h photo ads. And those are somewhat helpful. And then I buy it, and then I keep getting those same ads. And yeah, I, I commiserate with you on that.
Adam Parikh 57:27
Yeah. Reaching frequency, and like, you know, what is the lifecycle? What is the lifetime frequency things off? And those are questions that we grapple with all the time, you know, and whether something that we have control of where we can say just stop after X amount of ads, or X amount of time, or, you know, things like CTV, connected TV, right? You’re talking we’re talking about TVs, and you’ve got your Apple TVs, your Roku, you know, the the technology is still really developing. So sometimes if you watch those watch programming on those devices, you might have to ADS back to back. Because these aren’t as smart as your laptops and your phones.
Ryan Freng 58:19
Yeah, well, and it’s it’s all this stuff, you know, is continuing to develop. So like, what’s it like in your guys’s field? So you talked about it earlier? These aren’t new ideas. It’s just new tools, new technologies, new things that we adapt to. So I mean, just what’s that? Like? Because tick tock comes out, and you’re like, oh, my gosh, now I have to figure out how we’re marketing on tick tock and 10 minute imagine you’re on a treadmill. I know. 10 minutes. Yeah.
Adam Parikh 58:46
Breaking up the speed. Right?
Ryan Freng 58:49
Yes, you’re getting older. Well, and like with tic TOCs a good example, like when it first came out, I was like, Oh my gosh, this D Gen. Social Network is the worst. And everyone’s like, Oh, it’s so cool to jump on. And I resisted forever. And then finally, like, one of my media friends was like, Hey, you really gotta be posting stuff on there. We’re doing stuff and it’s been great and blah, blah, blah, was like what? Tik Tok? And I, you know, thinking from like, before, when it was super DGN. So I jumped back on, and I saw their content. And then I could actually sort and get like, comedians and magicians and I don’t know, just things that I actually, you know, people making movies, things that I find interesting. But something like that. Did you guys like when it came out? And there’s tons of people on it? And you’re like, Okay, well, I guess we got to figure it out. Or is that something where you can wait and see how to the platforms or tools we work with integrate with it or what happens? Because I feel like every every three months, you’re gonna have to adjust to something. Yeah. Just at the piece of software right now.
Adam Parikh 59:49
Yeah, I mean, honestly, there’s enough scale on the devices and channels that we control that it’s not a huge priority, but I’d, you know, it’d be false and saying that we haven’t investigated it and don’t respect it as a whole channel itself, because you see these tiktoks infiltrating YouTube and Facebook and Instagram, because you know, they watered market you know, so you can see came from so you just see so much more content being piped through there. Now as As with most new new, you know, technologies, generally they kind of it takes some time for their advertising to catch up and adapt. So, there is tick tock ads, but I mean, you’re generally able to target a geo right now from my understanding those, those are the most specific Wow. You know, those are the most that’s as specific as you can get. Even though um, you know, I’ve heard that tick tock collects a lot of data from your phone without you knowing and, you know, that’s an issue
Ryan Freng 1:01:07
China, China, China, China.
Adam Parikh 1:01:11
So yeah, so we definitely respect it. We’re looking into it personally for our firm. But yeah, you know, we know that that’s where a lot of influence happens. And you just see people scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and, and seeing in the streets for some reason. And, you know, we know it’s powerful, and that it’s coming and won’t be ignored. But you know, it could be integrated into some of the platforms that we already use, or we just have to start to treat it as its own platform on its own.
Andrea Parikh 1:01:43
Oh, sorry, I was, there’s two things that I think there’s a concern sometimes when you have new things come on, which one is creative? Like, you’re already creating all these things and all these different sizes? So and all these different things and all these different formats? So like, how do we get to a point where I think the now the display world and video world is trying to get a little bit more like, here’s some common sizes, here’s some common best practices, but every time you see vertical or new size come up or different billboards, whatever, that’s a lot of work. I mean, that’s a lot of investment and a lot of work.
Adam Parikh 1:02:19
Just go landscape Come on, right?
Andrea Parikh 1:02:22
Like one piece of it that like the more we can figure out how to create more of a common size thing. You know, the, the specs for Pandora and Spotify are different in audio advertising, Hulu is a little bit different on CTV. So it’s like, if you can, that’s one of the things that we investigate a lot is like, if you meet the highest standard, then it’ll come and it’ll flow through everything else. So how can we make that easier for clients? That’s one piece of it. The other thing going back to your initial question about like, I want to do programmatic or I want to do something like how do you guide people? I think a little bit of that is, as a way, you mentioned before, looking historically at what’s the goal, so if the goal is an ad, what’s your audience and if I have if I need to reach 18 to 24 year olds who are spending the majority of their time on connected television, video and Tik Tok, then maybe you’re doing more of that than the traditional billboard. But perhaps like one of the things that we’ve struggled with a little bit is getting advertisers to do more audio like Spotify, Pandora, there’s a lot of really, really engaged audiences there. So if you’re if 90% of your budget is spent on traditional media, can you carve out 10%? to maybe do this new thing over here? Right, right. That’s where I’d really like to go what 2022 is, like, we can repeat what you did last year? Put more in connected television, but also can we carve out 10% Try this out?
Ryan Freng 1:03:48
Yes, yeah, I love that. I love it so much, trying you know, carving 10% and trying because every year it’s gonna be different and new. So having some built in capability sounds awesome.
Andrea Parikh 1:04:00
And in a way where you’re taking kind of what you’re already doing and repurpose it like and go into that creative piece. We get so many questions about money right there. Yeah. Like it’s it costs a lot to create all these different sizes and all this different contexts, different
Adam Parikh 1:04:13
types of creative to I don’t think people go to tick tock for something pre packaged, you know, like, let’s say we have a resort, right? Normally, you’d have like a cool drone shot over the beach and here’s our restaurants and happy people splashing in the pool. Does that work talk that’s more of like, you know, first person walkthrough you know, it’s more kind of
Ryan Freng 1:04:38
Hey guys, Adam here and I’m at that says, check out what I found behind the secret door.
Adam Parikh 1:04:43
Yeah, like sandwiches they make or something but it’s a little more, you know, point of view focus, like here’s your experience on the ground at the resort versus a prepackaged kind of commercial. So it’s just such a different I need in my mind. Yeah.
John Shoemaker 1:05:03
Well, and I wonder, not everybody is doing this. There’s not enough people doing this, but like, so on the flip side of that, like using, you know, trying to use something and repurpose it for multiple places would be thinking specifically about where you’re going with it, and then designing creative based on that. And yeah, it’s it’s just, it’s hard in the in the world of small businesses and people trying to like, do things and compete and they’re like, all we can do is this one small project, and then you’re like, Okay.
Andrea Parikh 1:05:41
And that’s, that is honestly an area that we start to, like, we will have businesses come to like, if you’re doing programmatic media, or like people will say, like, I really think that I want to do out of home, like it looks, it’s great. And the billboard everyone’s like, where’s your website at? Where’s your social media? Like, those are things that will support that broader picture. So you kind of want some of those base layers to be there as much as I hate to say, like, don’t do this yet. But it’s kind of like don’t do this yet. We’ll see you in a year, get those things, get your get that house in order and then come to us well as
Adam Parikh 1:06:14
an award winning creative agencies such as yours, how do you adapt your messages knowing? Is this going to be on a TV campaign or a social campaign? How do you guys know that I mean, I, you know, I’m on the technical end and talk about the nuts and bolts and getting on but, you know, I couldn’t be creative to, you know, out of a brown paper bag. So that’s why I love talking to, you know, like, how do you deal with that, like, yeah, and do it. I’m not a creative director. I’m not, he’s
Ryan Freng 1:06:45
very, it’s very interesting. Because we’re doing this now. And we just kind of wrapped up first edits on something that’s going to be on tick tock and web, other marketing channels on the web. And we had that discussion. And it’s, it’s interesting, because we have different discussions at different levels with different companies. And where it typically starts with because we silo ourselves as a creative agency, not an ad agency. If somebody comes and says, Hey, I need in this case, a tick tock video, we’re considering a tick tock video, here’s three scripts. So this client is a previous client who we’ve worked with before in a different capacity. And so he said, Alright, let’s do it. And we picked one script, and we worked on it and kind of developed it to be like, Okay, we think this is something where we took your creative and turned it more into something that we think will work really well on Tiktok. Here’s how we think you can frame it for Tiktok, and Instagram, and then your website or you know, any other long form, advertising channels, Hulu or YouTube or whatnot. So it was kind of from a bottom up in that that perspective. I think, once they test this, and there’s some proving in here, what works, what doesn’t work, then we’ll we’ll have a discussion at a higher level, where we can talk maybe even about the concept, right? Because we did pitch with them. These other ideas, too, like you’re saying about tick tock, it’s more point of view focused. And I think we did end up landing in a more point of view story, but it’s still this narrative kind of silly story. But exploring some more of those very specific platform, themes or styles, I think will be an opportunity, once we kind of get through this first project. And then we’re more of a creative partner at that point, as opposed to just you know, doughnut maker, where we’re just creating the creative. Yep. So basically, when we get when we get to a point with our partners, where we’re helping them figure out the creative, that’s when we can really think about and guide it and I I’ve been on Tik Tok for, I don’t know, six months now, and Max has been on Tik Tok. So we both kind of had a sense of what we like there and what we don’t like. And that’s, that’s where we bring, that’s what we bring to creative is our own taste. So, like, there’s this there’s the science of marketing, and that creates like a really good foundation and even like an outline or game plan of how we’re going to do something, but then the, the taste the is that little bit on top that could really resonate really, really well or maybe not resonate. And then that tells us okay, well, this group of people, this target audience likes this type of thing more, so let’s change it and try to adjust for that taste. Right. So that, that art with the science, I think that we can add and we’re not doing any of the science of the we’re not doing like any of the Add by either or that the statistics and stuff. So that can be tough, too. Because, you know, I can look at some numbers and you can look at some numbers and we can come to two different conclusions depending on our frame of reference. Right. And so that’s that’s always a difficult discussion to have. Add, we’ve had that in the past where there’s a campaign and the video hit like on the fifth email message. And that was the lowest click through rate and the lowest donation day or whatever. But then after that it’s spiked. And then after that it was really high. And you’re like, there’s so many factors here, right? Yeah, it’s right in the middle. So many factors, it’s in the middle, you’ve already emailed them three times. So that’s a big deal. It’s it’s video, and this is something that’s longer form, something that, you know, is not just a quick click, click Go, type of type of ad buy. And so what we see a lot with, with video, and longer form video, is this brand equity, like, we were purchasing brand equity and feelings, you know, with people, and they’ll come back, and they’ll have a better experience the next time they come back. But that first time, it’s just like consumption, it’s just like, going through and having that experience, and then they gotta go away, you know, they’re not going to do that that purchase necessarily right away, but they’ll come back and they’ll have that positive brand. You know, you built up that brand equity. So we’re we saw that we were like, No, that that’s really good. Like, look at these numbers compared to last year’s numbers at this email without the video. Let’s compare that. And so that’s also why we’re in kind of a funky place, just being the creative too.
John Shoemaker 1:11:20
But yeah, then they were only you know, looking at, click through. So regardless of the attention being higher, they were looking at, you know, click through to donation. All right, we always make this, we always try to make this comparison that we just tried to discourage people like unless you’re McDonald’s, don’t be trying to pull a you know, burger to sales or burgers to commercial kind of ratio. Like, it was a, you know, it’s still a big, big project for them. But a small enough campaign that like, how do you know that? In the eye, it was the middle of the campaign that in the last email that said, this is the last week or the last month that you can donate? You know, before we close out the fundraiser this year? How do you know that people didn’t donate more there? Because they had watched the video somewhere along the way and had a deeper connection to the thing? And then finally, it was like, Hey, you got to do it now? Or you’re gonna run at a time? Right? Well, there’s a lot of testing you would have had to do to make that happen. And they didn’t do it. So it’s like that thing. I mean, we’ve we’ve seen in the last couple of years, how, how data can be used, you know, to say things that are not scientific. So very gently,
Andrea Parikh 1:12:43
totally agree. I mean, I think insights was, I was actually speaking with our marketing coordinator, who’s a student at UW Whitewater. And we were talking a little bit about, we’re talking a little bit about how to measure social analytics, right? So she’s going and he’s downloading all the reports and putting the numbers together and where our post engagement is, and what’s kind of driving more engagement and understanding. But I told her, I was like, I actually had a call from a friend of mine, who, who is an old colleague at Clear Channel likes, loves to see kind of what we’re doing and how I’ve moved from that space to this space. And also know some people that could use some help in this area and guidance, whether they’re talking about, you know, actual potential referrals, or just people that are also growing in the business space. So there’s different things but like, that’s, she saw that because of what we’re doing on LinkedIn, and what we’re doing on social, that’s not something you’re gonna get from those numbers. But when you look at it, and say, like, here’s all the things that we’re trying to do for our clients, they’re doing all these things, and maybe you put up a screenshot or snapshot of what they’re doing a TV versus radio versus out of home. And then you say, like, here are your was your, your full results. Here’s what you saw. It’s not really that that like we drew a line from this to this, but it’s like, look at how much you’re engrossing people and your messages out there, and all the amazing things that you’re doing, or like you said, comparison year over year, and then look what you’re seeing. And rather than trying to do that last touch attribution or whatever it might be, sometimes it’s just a little bit more of the story that of what they’re doing and how what they’re seeing on the back end, it’s hard to actually draw that exact line. Does that make sense? Like it’s hard to draw,
Ryan Freng 1:14:28
right? It’s balancing it with with the anecdotal, you know, response as well, because a radio ad, you know, it’s like, three grand or whatever, to do some radio ads for a month or two or something and this couple channels, and they’re like, you’re gonna be heard by 100,000, blah, blah, every week and nooner. And we’re like, oh, that sounds really really good. You know, one customer came out of it that that were directly aware of, I heard your radio ad and I called you, right. So that’s that one data point. The other super you know, I guess that’s anecdotal. So Well, but the other data points are just people commenting on it. So we got so much positive feedback from it. And we have to imagine that those people who don’t know us, who experienced it, hopefully also had something as well. So then the next time, right, it’s like sales cycle, the next time they come to this point where they’re going to think about getting some help with their, their creative or their, their video, or their web or whatever. They remember that ad or you know, something, something about what we’ve put in front of them has endured, it’s that it to them, and then they think of us, right? And then they might not even realize it like, That’s the craziest thing about this type of marketing is like, there, they may not even be able to be like, I don’t know where I heard about you guys. Like, well, it’s probably from one of these things that we did, but it doesn’t bear out in the data. So it’s this interesting thing that we’re like, no, no. Like, you’re gonna get 20,000 views right away on this thing. And that’s great. And that beats your previous numbers, but also just see how people interpret it and see how people talk about it. And, you know, get that information somehow, because that’s also important.
Andrea Parikh 1:16:08
Yeah, I think that’s when, like, if you look historically, at advertisers who have measured, like, where people heard something from, it’s usually off, I know, Twitter did a big campaign, about a Black Panther streaming cast that they were doing, right. So it was, it was something to do with the release of Black Panther they were featuring in all of our billboards. And they definitely had digital ads. They had their own ads. And then they did a stream on Twitter that was with Chadwick Boseman. And all these people, and people afterward would say, I saw you on TV, and they’re like, there were no TV. There was no TV. Yeah. But But yes, you definitely made like it was that big of an event that they felt like they were seeing it on their big screen at home. So
Ryan Freng 1:16:53
yeah, it had that much of an impression impression on them. Yeah. Let’s see. So we are kind of winding down here. This is kind of a typical time that we do something a little bit special. Let me see if I can find it. It’s been two weeks since I’ve did it. So I forgot how to do it. So if you’re watching at home, you’ve seen the show before you listen, you know what time it is. Right, it’s time for teachers and Ally where we get to know our guests a little bit better see how well they can tell lies. If you work with them, or work for them. Keep keep a close eye at this point. See if you can tell any tales when they’re making stuff up. Part of this game is to fool us but part of it is to fool anyone else watching I don’t know if Steve still there. Or if if anybody who knows. Adam and Andrea personally and isn’t just kind of cruising on Facebook and jumped in. shout, shout out, give us a shout out. We’ll throw you up on screen and you can participate as well. If you win, Steve still here. Oh yeah, there it is. If you win, you can send us your address, and we’ll send you some swag. And Adam and Andrea will make sure we send you guys awesome swag as well from the show. What else? Yeah, the game. So John, why don’t you explain how the game goes? Well, the game’s
John Shoemaker 1:18:15
called two truths and a lie. So you’re gonna want to tell not one, but two truths. And then the other item is going to be a lie. Oh, Steve is already lying to just show us how
Ryan Freng 1:18:33
it’s never live and work.
John Shoemaker 1:18:36
Yep. So you know, tell us tell us a couple. You know, they give you a little stories. It could be statements. Yep. Try to throw us off. Do you know you can
Ryan Freng 1:18:46
in any random order. And even if you can throw the spouse off, that would be amazing. Especially if you tell a story and they’re like, I’ve never heard that story. Yeah, that’d be good. Yeah,
Andrea Parikh 1:18:57
there’s benefit. But I don’t think that yeah, I think
Ryan Freng 1:19:03
the internet everything is appropriate.
Adam Parikh 1:19:06
Right? Yeah. I guess I’ll kick it off. Okay. All right. So I am fluent in both French and Italian. I’ve pulled a bowling ball out of a porta Potti and I’ve been to a Tupac concert.
Ryan Freng 1:19:31
I like to hear these things because because you want some of them to be true.
Andrea Parikh 1:19:37
Uh huh. Oh, do you want me to give mine?
Ryan Freng 1:19:40
No, no. The bowling ball. John.
John Shoemaker 1:19:44
Was the bowling ball in the Porta Potti at the Tupac concert.
Adam Parikh 1:19:48
It was it was mauled into a riot before anything could really be.
Ryan Freng 1:19:56
The bowling ball in the Porta Potty devolved into a riot or the Tupac So let’s see the truth. Oh, we do have some votes coming in.
John Shoemaker 1:20:08
Yeah. Christopher Dupont.
Ryan Freng 1:20:09
Don’t give it away. Don’t give it away
John Shoemaker 1:20:12
that this, the bowling party you were at must have been pretty wild. Because I’m assuming multiple people were carrying their bowling balls with them into the porta potties. You didn’t want to leave that unattended.
Adam Parikh 1:20:29
Ryan Freng 1:20:30
Dana’s also not by a number of things, Nina. Alright Steve, you haven’t locked in your vote yet. Steve. What do you got? What do you got? John? You got? You gotta guess.
John Shoemaker 1:20:39
Yeah, I’m leaning toward French and Italian because the other two are like pretty big wild stories. Yeah. And yeah, I
Ryan Freng 1:20:48
want to vote happy. True.
John Shoemaker 1:20:50
You had them really quick. I don’t know what the bowling ball story is. Maybe it was working, working on an event or something like that. I had to deal with some crazy situation. But yeah, I mean, I don’t know what languages you speak. I haven’t heard you otter either of those during those conversations. If Depop
Ryan Freng 1:21:12
shut enough to pop. Yeah. Gordo. Yes, that that that was when that French in that French week. can do that all coming back to me. Now. I didn’t take any notes. Steve says no spoilers, Stevens. It’s already been spoiled. I mean, everyone has already guessed. So it doesn’t count. I mean, you can go ahead and guess that’s my guess. Language. That’s your first guess. I’m gonna guess. Christie Ponte says we we? Yep. Pretty sure that’s how you spell it. But I’m gonna say I’m gonna say Adam wouldn’t know. Because he would he doesn’t speak French or Italian. So that’s my guess. Now. Andrew will give you a guess you probably know this, especially if the first one is a lie.
Andrea Parikh 1:22:00
Yeah, it’s definitely the first one. But,
Ryan Freng 1:22:03
I mean, that’d be that’d be pretty rad if all of a sudden he’s like, actually, I’ve been working. So I can take you to France, right? Yeah. Are you Italian? Yeah.
Adam Parikh 1:22:18
Yeah, that’s the first one is a lie. I do not. I’m not fluent. Jake. What up Jake? I’m not fluent in any language other than English.
Ryan Freng 1:22:28
We’re gonna talk about that reaction real quick. Jake, what up? And then okay, so bowling ball story. What’s the bowling ball story?
Adam Parikh 1:22:39
Yeah, John is pretty spot on. I was a lifeguard in my teens and college career and there was a bowling ball in the porta potties. So I put on three pairs of gloves and all that bad boy right out of there. It was awful. Throw it into the garbage Canada. The garbage can tip though. First one.
Ryan Freng 1:23:01
Oh my god. Yeah. No.
Andrea Parikh 1:23:04
He found out several years later that it was a fellow lifeguard that put it in there. He had no clue that like one of his friends. And his one of his closest friends when telling the story had no clue that he was the one that had to go fish it out. Yeah, that’s like remember when we put the bullet bowling on the porta potty and he was like that was you?
Ryan Freng 1:23:26
I had to clean that out. Yes. Oh, we thought it would be really funny. And then and then Tupac when you go to Tupac concert.
Adam Parikh 1:23:36
There was a an event called the fat wrapped fast and I think 93 or 94 fat with the pH one boss MC eight. That was a very Yeah, gangsta rap heavy and Tupac and the Outlaws were there and by the second song it devolved into a riot.
Ryan Freng 1:24:02
Oh, good story. I love it. All right. So you didn’t trick anyone but we’ll still we’ll still send you points or we’ll still send you swag. You get points for that. All right, Andrea, you’re up next. All right.
Andrea Parikh 1:24:15
So mine are that I don’t have a diploma. That hockey is the only organized sport I’ve ever played. And that I was a princess that Disney World.
Ryan Freng 1:24:26
Oh, enemies down because I have a terrible memory. You were like you worked as a princess at Disney.
Andrea Parikh 1:24:37
Yes. During my college internship. I did the Disney internships. So
Ryan Freng 1:24:42
yeah. Which one? Were you? Belle? Belle. Does she have blonde
Andrea Parikh 1:24:48
hair? No. Issue. Ryan. Come on. So that was that would have been clearly off but
Ryan Freng 1:24:56
yeah Um, let’s see. So no diploma. Hockey only organized. Sport you played princesses at Disney. I’m guessing you’re not fooling Adam on these. I really want no diploma to be true. I have six kids and I will support them in their endeavors that need school. But I’m not going to let them find themselves in school or get some BS degree like I have. So I’m super down with no diploma. Hockey only organized sport. You played Princess at Disney. I’m going to maybe say the second one’s a lie. Like maybe you played two sports or something. Or maybe other sports were disorganized. Yes. Just like Tupac concerts. Yeah. Let’s see. We got to vote. Christopher Dupont. I’m gonna say the first one is a lie. No diploma. I Princess Jake. Said princess. That’s how I’m gonna say his name from now. Jake. What are you doing on the internet? Jake?
Adam Parikh 1:26:10
Right. should be in school.
Ryan Freng 1:26:14
The truth comes out.
Adam Parikh 1:26:19
Ryan Freng 1:26:20
Yeah, and this is marketing. So yeah, this counts is work. Wink.
John Shoemaker 1:26:27
Okay, yeah, I’m of the same opinion as Ryan, we’re, we’re in the,
Ryan Freng 1:26:33
this is the first time you’ve ever picked one that I’ve picked. I always copy you because I’m usually wrong.
John Shoemaker 1:26:39
I don’t know what you’ve picked. But
Ryan Freng 1:26:43
I’m gonna take it all back
John Shoemaker 1:26:44
with good with no diploma because we’re seeing, you know, our generation I think is, you know, we’re all we’ve all learned. We all know enough people and friends that you’re like, wow, that diploma was very expensive and useless for you. But I think that that is the lie actually. Think you accidentally gave it what you should I did I know. college internship. So that’s so you had a college internship. Also, you’ve got
Ryan Freng 1:27:19
context clues. I was able to get a lot of
John Shoemaker 1:27:22
experience. And you’ve got all these like, you know, credentials of where you worked, and then going up to New York, and so I feel like they would want degrees.
Ryan Freng 1:27:37
That’s some sound reasoning. You know, Steve says what is hockey?
John Shoemaker 1:27:44
Do you know that? He’s giving the appropriately.
Ryan Freng 1:27:51
Jeopardy? Yes, the Jeopardy answer. Yes, that’s right. Yeah. What is golf Trebek? All right, so John, you’re guessing which one?
John Shoemaker 1:28:03
The great she’s got a degree. Yeah. So what she’s more than just a pretty princess face.
Ryan Freng 1:28:10
Hockey. A badass checking people up against the wall? Disney princess.
John Shoemaker 1:28:17
There’s probably kindergarten soccer involved in there as well.
Ryan Freng 1:28:22
Yeah, all right. You probably know this too. Already. Adam do you? Do you know Okay, then we’ll let Andrea reveal. What is you guys Ryan? Oh. That hockey was the only organized sports he played. But I do I like your reasoning for number one as well but I’m gonna vote to
Andrea Parikh 1:28:44
Alright, it’s number three is the lie.
John Shoemaker 1:28:47
Oh, dang. What have we done
Andrea Parikh 1:28:51
to clarify that the first I did actually graduate but I do not have the piece of paper diploma. Because I
John Shoemaker 1:29:00
thought for a second I was gonna be
Andrea Parikh 1:29:02
I it bugs my mother to this day that I have like an empty diploma holder but the piece of paper isn’t in there. That was a weird like weird thing with whitewater because it took a winner room is like my final credit. And so like I walked with everybody, but I couldn’t have it until this stuff was turned in. And then there was all this paperwork that you had to fill out and by then I had a job and I was like, I don’t care about the piece of paper and
Ryan Freng 1:29:24
I was gonna say yeah, I was gonna say when you’re applying for a job and you’re like, No, no, really. I have a diploma I did graduate I just can’t show you it. It’s in
Andrea Parikh 1:29:33
Yeah, you know you can eat the record show it but like there’s no piece of paper I don’t have the tiny little piece of paper with a seal on it. But she’d been one time she found my the case and she was like, can you just go get the piece of paper? To me so yeah, that’s Yeah,
Adam Parikh 1:29:53
that’s great. You a Lifetime Achievement Award. Maybe you’ll get it that
Ryan Freng 1:29:56
Yeah. That’s a good lie. That’s a good
Andrea Parikh 1:29:59
one. But yeah, hockey was organized sport that I played my brother and sister both were big soccer people. Shout out data who’s on the podcast and I did work at Disneyworld. But I was never a princess. And that one came up recently, we were on a call with a vendor and he actually assumed that I was a princess at Disney World. And I was like, No, I used to cook turkey.
Ryan Freng 1:30:22
Yeah, don’t don’t assume because of how I look and dress that I was a princess. I was slinging meat and fry and food. Yeah. Which
Andrea Parikh 1:30:32
was also a very interesting part of the internship. So shout out to program.
Ryan Freng 1:30:37
Oh, that’s so that’s so fun. Cool. Well, that’s kind of what we do here. That’s kind of our show. How can we plug you guys let’s see is gigawatt dot media. I saw that your
Adam Parikh 1:30:49
Yeah, our website? Yeah. Yeah. It’s on LinkedIn. Is it the website? And yeah, this has just been real. A real pleasure to talk to you guys today. Absolutely.
Ryan Freng 1:31:00
Thanks so much for coming and just hanging. You know, it’s good times to meet meet people and just kind of hear different stories and I appreciate you guys coming and playing so thanks for that everyone. Check out there it is gigawatt media down there. Get all your your digital marketing or you know, all your marketing help right? Out Of Home marketing as well. All this stuff programmatic, social, digital, everything I draw. Why it’s Greased Lightning. Also, let’s see if you’re listening to us. Check that check out the video sometime. It’s on YouTube and Facebook. You can find that let’s backlog.com/i Honestly the backward slash Facebook facebook.com/ Let’s backflip or youtube.com/backflip films or just find it down below. Click the links. If you’re listening to this podcast, hit all the buttons like subscribe, do all the things and let us know. If you know anyone else who you wanted to bring on or chat with or any topics you want us to cover. We’d love to do it. Let us know. Thanks so much for that. And thanks everyone for jumping in. Who do we have? We had Christopher du Pont, Steve, Steve PS. Jake. I can’t see your last name. Dana, and I didn’t see Carolyn in here today. So I’ll have to text her. I’m very disappointed. But thank you all for joining us. Yeah, and thanks to Adam and Andrea. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Awesome. Happy Friday. John, anything else?
John Shoemaker 1:32:33
If you don’t have your paper degree, you can still get a job. They don’t check.
Ryan Freng 1:32:39
If you learn anything from this, that’s what it was. All right. Aaron. Aaron was here too. Thanks, Aaron. Always good to hear from you. And also Jake. Yeah, Jake, go to college. No one else unless you need to. Alright, that’s all we got. Thanks so much. We’ll see you next time. Thanks, guys.