094 – Creativity and Connection in a Digital Age with Katie Kennedy
September 19, 2024
Can technology truly bridge the gap between generations, or does it create an unbridgeable chasm? Join us for an engaging conversation with Katie Kennedy as we sip our drinks and reminisce about our shared experiences with the Chamber of Commerce. We dive into the power of relational marketing and the importance of community connections.
Remember the days when you had to rely on memory and gas stations for navigation? Our nostalgic journey takes a humorous turn as we reminisce about evolving communication methods and the unsettling feeling when technology lets us down. From the simplicity of landlines to the complexity of GPS, we contrast past experiences with today’s constant connectivity. We also explore how different generations perceive technological advancements and the struggle to balance screen time with real-life interactions, sharing personal anecdotes that will make you both laugh and contemplate.
Ever wondered how modern marketing can balance creativity and authenticity? We discuss the enduring principles of health and fitness amidst modern dietary fads and reflect on the art of marketing complex ideas. Celebrate with us as we acknowledge Katie’s achievements and wrap up with some humorous and unexpected personal stories, leaving you both entertained and inspired.
Topics in This Episode
- (00:00:54) The Chamber Event
- (00:04:47) Will AI Take Over My Job?
- (00:11:11) Unplugging From a Digital World
- (00:19:05) Generational Perspectives on Technology and Aging
- (00:30:35) The True Spirit of Advertising
- (00:34:34) Emotional Storytelling
- (00:45:14) Balancing Work and Personal Life
- (00:53:35) The Importance of Creativity in Marketing
- (01:06:25) Unexpected Events and Funny Stories
- (01:10:45) Two Truths and a Lie
Links
- Greater Madison Chamber of Commerce Website
- Greater Madison Chamber of Commerce LinkedIn
- Laborem Exercens (The Dignity of Work)
- The Youthquake Movement
- The Clogging Trailer
- KennedyC Website
Transcript
Ryan Freng:
Hello and welcome back to another let’s Backflip show. Happy hour Is that the title? I don’t think that’s the title. You know what’s going on, though. It’s a happy hour. We’re hanging out with fun people today having a drink, alcohol or just a favorite drink that we have in house, and today I’ve got Katie Kennedy with me. Thank you for coming, katie, and thanks for sitting here awkwardly and not talking while we got things going. Yeah, how are you doing?
Katie Kennedy:
I’m doing great. Thank you for having me. This is, admittedly, my first podcast. Is it really so? You know, I don’t know if the feeling’s nervous or just I don’t know what to feel. I’d be more nervous for a subsequent one.
Ryan Freng:
Maybe I’ll never have another one. If all goes according to plan, this will be your last one, and no one will ever invite you in.
Katie Kennedy:
I’m going to tink this in about five minutes.
Ryan Freng:
That was fun. I ran into you at the Chamber event. Yes, that was cool.
Katie Kennedy:
Yes, I paid attention in case you were going to quiz me on that. I always enjoy those.
Ryan Freng:
I think it’s fun that it’s 10 years and running on the space breaker, but how long have you guys been a part of the chamber?
Katie Kennedy:
Well, I mean, I, you know, was working alongside Zach when he came up with this idea and helped with, you know, his first speech for this event, so it really does hold a special place for me and you know, I just um, zach is truly such a gifted human and understands Madison so implicitly and um, he just meant shit happen.
Katie Kennedy:
I mean, Like, well, he does and it’s it’s things that you would. It’s just you know otherworldly sometimes you know what he’s able to come up with and the you know all the connections he makes and brings back around and um, always a really incredible moment to be part of that and here you know just kind of watch how all that comes together. So I can’t.
Ryan Freng:
I feel like I can’t pitch the chamber enough. We’re just new members, okay. Um, because I wanted to get connected and I was like this, this group looks like they know what they’re doing. Um, and then, as I got more and more into it and met people went to like chamber 101 and whatever. I was like yo, this is like legit, like not I don’t want to say any other organizations that we’ve been a part of in town for maybe a year or two where it’s like oh, it’s this awkward social situation and you hand a card and like you dread going to them. This is like the opposite, yeah, which I think is amazing yeah, and it’s fun.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, it’s just, it’s like this huge event but it feels as small as madison is right that you and I walk up to the registration table at the same time, like, oh hey yeah so it feels like, as you’re working through the crowd, you know so many of the people and it’s like, oh, I, I was gonna try and find you at this event. There’s a thousand people here. How was I gonna do that? And it happens anyway. So that’s just.
Ryan Freng:
That’s quintessential madison right, right and that, like you know, as a marketer thinking about connecting and whatnot, like I feel like it’s just such a great example of what relational marketing and just connecting is Cause it’s like that was kind of my goal, Like, hey, I want to just say hi to people. Like how many people am I going to be able to, you know, recognize and say hi to? I think the count was only maybe like six or seven and I was like I was actually impressed. I was like I was actually impressed. I was like I don’t know most people that I’m seeing, you know, still connected with a lot.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, yeah, you feel like you’ve met everybody.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
It’s kind of nice to know there’s another frontier out there, that you know more people than me, but the oldies but goodies you know that you’ve seen over the years and look forward to seeing, and six or seven is really powerful, like he was talking about the social determinants of health and talking about you know, just having what was it? Two interactions a week or something.
Ryan Freng:
One social interaction was like half. There’s two stats the one was halving, like Alzheimer’s risk, and the other one was like 400%. Something else? Yeah, oh yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
The risk of dementia, think, yeah, yeah, so, but it was just that power of just connecting with people. So, even if you say six or seven, you’re like, well, that’s, that’s actually a lot of people to be able to have that moment and then maybe be able to say, let’s, let’s grab a coffee, let’s grab that drink, right and go on from there. So, yeah, I think they do a nice job of leaving space to do that. Like the um, the speakers are always engaging and you walk away from that just, you know, ruminating on everything that was said, right, and all the stats that were thrown at you, but it’s, um, just as much about connecting yeah, well and Well.
Ryan Freng:
And Justin there at the end I think Mr Fascinate, he’s like moniker he said a couple of like really pithy phrases that stuck in my mind. One was AI is not going to take your job, it’s the people who are using AI are going to take your job. And I love that because, like I talked to people in the creative industry, in programming and you know just people all across the board and most people are pretty positive and pretty open and experimenting with AI.
Ryan Freng:
But then there’s some people who are just terrified and they’re like I’m not using it at all and like I’m concerned that it’s coming after my job. And you know, I’m sure everyone felt the same way with various industrial revolutions Sure, yep, building of factories, and certainly there’s some job loss, but it’s, you know, it’s a shifting of that workforce and being the person who drives the ai or the prompt engineer that was another one, yes, that I hadn’t heard yes, but it makes perfect sense, right, you know?
Katie Kennedy:
yeah, I mean, they just had, um, something on the morning news. That’s my, you know, my zen moment in the morning. Uh, even if the kids now, this used to be before the kids were up, but now that they’re, you know, they’re able to kind of get themselves ready that I just sit with my cup of coffee and I watch the morning news and I don’t move until the last drop of coffee is done. So, anyway, anyway, I get my fill. But they were talking about upskilling workers. That same thing, you know, saying well, to be displaced by a robot, well, we’re just going to teach you new things and new value propositions and new role, and so it’s kind of the same thing as what you’re talking about Right, right and I think, you know, I think it’s just maybe a philosophy or perspective, like something hard is coming, I’m scared of it versus I’m going to embrace it.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, yes.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, are you guys? Are you personally? Do you do anything with that? You, the company aside, gosh that’s really no.
Katie Kennedy:
I mean no, jeez, you know that’s check with me tomorrow, now that I’ve been outed. I mean, I certainly am paying attention to it and watching and reading articles on it and trying to consume and understand it, but for me I’m probably just a little old school at times and might be a late adopter until I’ve really made sure I know how I want to incorporate it.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, I mean it’s a little scary because, like, there’s the legality behind it yeah, there’s. It’s very gray. Yeah, you know there’s some big advertisers who are using it. But you know, I don’t know if you ever got hit with like an image, a copyright image. We had one, like a little thing, somewhere on our website. Basically, we got scanned by this group who does this. This is an AP photo. Do you have the license? Shit, yeah, trying to go through the paper trail and like don’t think you have it and I well, you owe us $3,400. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you know, gosh yeah, you know.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I think you know. Sometimes, you know I, I don’t know I. That’s that’s me, though I like to be a little bit more uh, buttoned down and airtight on stuff, but there’s um. You have to also surround yourself with people who are, you know, willing to to jump in and try some of it and um, but I don’t know how you guys are using it. But know, or do you use it personally?
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, I mean personally a lot. Um, the funny thing is like what do we use that isn’t using? It is kind of the question right now, right, like as all language learning models and data models that are learning our behavior, like our phones, will suggest hey, you usually go to work now, here’s how long it will take to get there, right, that’s. That’s a little bit of AI that we never said yes to just as a feature, but in terms of intentional AI, I use it a lot as kind of a discovery tool or a brainstorming tool, and that’s been really fun.
Ryan Freng:
It’s almost like being able to talk to a lot of different people about a given topic or something and get some feedback. And then I’m always like give me references, you can give me links, then I can go actually go see where it’s getting some of that stuff, if it smells like bullshit. And then, creatively, we were actually pitching some AI avatar and AI VO stuff. Yeah, ai avatar and AI VO stuff yeah, because the client was hopeful to create something and to be able to utilize it for up to two years without having to come back and have production and save some costs, certainly some licensing up front. Yeah, so we were exploring the AI avatars, the AI voiceovers, trying to figure out licensing.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, now we’ve looked into that a little bit ourselves. You know, um, it’ll sort itself out, we’ll. We’ll just keep learning more. You know, I know a lot of people use it to help them you know, write things and I guess maybe you know probably a little bit more. My journalism background makes me go like I’m gonna do it myself.
Ryan Freng:
Have you seen some of those stats, what, like? I can’t remember. If it was like 2030, like 80 percent, I you know it might even be sooner like 2025, like 80 percent of content online will be created by ai. Well, and it’s already, you know, we’re already there. Yeah, that’s a lot of um. Yeah, how to how to do seo. It’s already you know, we’re already there. That’s a lot of how to do SEO. It’s like, go over here, say, give me 10 blog prompts and then write, you know, a couple outlines for that. And, okay, flesh out these sections. And you know it’s weird, you can feel it when you read it.
Katie Kennedy:
Obviously, oh yeah, I mean yeah, so yeah, it’ll be interesting. I mean I’m probably in this. People know me will tell you. I have these little quirks where there’s a while where I was like I will not use an emoji when I text. My kids give me a hard time about that. I’m like remember when mom wouldn’t use one and now it’s like now I use them freely and people give me a hard time every time.
Ryan Freng:
And I’m like wow, I think that was five emojis in that message. Yeah, it’s like people don’t even use this many and now she uses that, so maybe you know. That’s why I said check back with me. I don’t know. Yeah, it’s gonna, yeah, yeah, when, maybe when it’s I feel like it’s, it’s forced into everything too, like every other day, you’re like now your toaster has ai and here’s why. And I don’t know. The cynic in me is like is this china? Is like do we need to be worried about stuff like that?
Katie Kennedy:
and probably, but sometimes I just want to get back to the 80s yeah yeah, just being a little unhooked and I’ll just a little bit like just a good old toaster, yeah, but then what it’s supposed to do, do you, do you ever?
Ryan Freng:
do you ever unplug you ever?
Katie Kennedy:
oh, that’s a great question. Um, I, uh, I’m trying to learn how to do that. I don’t know how successful it. Well, that morning routine is sort of in a way, like my, my way of doing that. It’s like it’s not unplugging because I’m I’m watching tv, but it’s it, so it’s not quiet. I’m not meditating per se, but it’s you’re not.
Katie Kennedy:
I’m not answering questions yes I’m not doom scrolling while I’m doing that or whatever. It’s literally just holding and feeling the warmth of the mug and just setting myself up for the day. It’s just that moment. I’ve just felt like I I’ve needed it. So, um, yeah, I think it’s harder and harder to do. Um, especially when you get that weekly report. You know, like gosh, I barely have my phone this week, and then you get that and you’re like yeah what did they say today? That um gen c is at least online eight hours, eight hours a day, right.
Ryan Freng:
but then the middle schoolers were saying it’s like much more, it’s way more than that.
Katie Kennedy:
Right, yeah, you know that’s a lot. It’s not a name.
Ryan Freng:
I don’t know if it was a psychologist or, you know, a neurobiologist or who I was listening to. It sounded like they knew what they were talking about. But the difference between, like you know, vegging out in front of the tv and kind of like how we grew up, where it’s like, yeah, the tv’s on it’s noise, but there’s a community aspect to it or social aspect to it, where, like, anyone who walks in is now participating in it with you, um, whereas this is, like you know, okay, now I’m not with you, I’m over here, I’m separate. And even when people are sitting together watching something, we’re at a restaurant, like our kids don’t have phones yet, but when they do, I want to be like, hey, if you need to check something, you can step away for a second, like that’s fine.
Katie Kennedy:
Like when we’re here, we’re here at the dinner table or whatever I think that’s, you know, really smart, and you know, instead of kind of getting annoyed later, you know about it. Um, I, I do that too. I just had those funny moments in the car, right, you know, just took the kids to arizona and I said so, let me just understand this. I’ve spent all this money to bring you to another state to see, you know, the desert and and all of this new community, and you’re in your phones, you know, and then they kind of go like you know. So instead of just being direct about say yeah, can you please?
Katie Kennedy:
put away, I do this whole like let me get this straight, you know. So, instead of just being direct about say yeah, can you please put away, I do this whole like let me get this straight you know so um, which maybe at times is a little softer and a little little more well-respected through the you know, uh, mom’s telling me to do something else right now, but yeah, um, yeah, I mean it’s definitely a distraction for um to human interaction, but I do understand that it’s supplanting that.
Katie Kennedy:
What we used to do, and hang out on the phone at night just communicating with friends. They just get to do it over video, which is a lot cooler than you know we had, like that house that had the second line.
Ryan Freng:
You know well you could be on a computer at the same time, as opposed to, like, what are you doing? Yeah, I get off. I need to use the phone.
Katie Kennedy:
Well, you’re younger than I am. This wasn’t even I’m talking about. They had two phone lines, and one was for the kids and one was for the parents.
Ryan Freng:
Blow your mind Right. I mean, I feel like with my upbringing that’s just being rich Like we. You know we had one, so we had one, so you had to use that for everything, yeah. Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Or the phone jack in the bathroom. They had a phone in the bath. It’s crazy. How did they live? I don’t know. I don’t understand it. But how do you unplug?
Ryan Freng:
Oh geez.
Katie Kennedy:
Or do you?
Ryan Freng:
I guess that’s the question you started with yeah, how do I unplug? So Lent just happened. That was one thing. So you could never stop working, right, you know, as an agency owner, um, just anyone who cares about their job, probably, yeah, uh, and has the remote capability, you can never stop working if you didn’t actively try to. So for me, for lent, it was, um, putting the phone away when I got home and not checking anything until after the kids were in bed and like figured out with the wife, like are we hanging out or otherwise? I’ll jump on the computer, but then just not being like constantly distracting because it’s like death by a thousand cuts. Yeah, right, yeah, um, it can be hard to focus on any one thing, like can’t give whatever I’m trying to respond to, the focus, can’t give the kids the focus of the family, and you know. So that’s one way that I try to do it. And then there was oh, where was that? Did you go to the chamber event? Is that chamber event that, uh, marshall lindsey spoke at? Were you there?
Katie Kennedy:
I was at the best in Madison recently.
Ryan Freng:
Yes.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, I was not there in that event.
Ryan Freng:
So that morning AT&T went on nationwide Maybe you remember that and I’m driving and I’m like I’m so dependent on the phone. I just throw a map up, I know where I’m going, sure, yeah, but it’s like a weird mental confidence thing and I couldn’t do it. And then I was like, okay, let me call Monica. And I was like, okay, it’s not working. I was like what is happening? And like, yeah, literally I felt like a lightning, like not lightning but a lightening, like I just felt lifted up, like, oh, this is nice to be unplugged, like the pressure of whatever this was you know causing in my life. So I’m thinking about trying to make that happen somehow. Be like I’m gonna turn off the internet at home on some, you know someday, or like tuesday night or something like we’re, we’re cutting off the electricity. You can use candles or I don’t know, probably something drastic.
Katie Kennedy:
Please report back on how that goes.
Ryan Freng:
With immunity.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, yes, and I actually am curious if how many people felt lighter in that moment, how many people felt total panic.
Ryan Freng:
Right.
Katie Kennedy:
You know, and I think it just maybe depends even on the situation I think it was two summers ago it happened to there’s like a widespread cellular outage and, um, it was right at the time I was supposed to meet up with my cousin.
Katie Kennedy:
And you know days the days are long gone where it was like we made a plan ahead of time. You know right, it was just like, yeah, just give me a call and I’ll be over here, and so you can just, I’ll just let you know where I am. And it was that moment of going we have no plan, right, you know and that like, oh gosh, what are we gonna do now? Kind of thing, and you figure it out. But it’s just that you become so reliant on it just to the moment, so that even if it goes out for two minutes or 10 minutes, you’re going like, well, that just scrambled things a bit, nothing, or but yeah, yeah, I think so. It depends on if you’re in one of those moments or if you’re like, oh, thank goodness no one can reach me right now, because I kind of want to know.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, it depends on your emotional state, or lost.
Katie Kennedy:
Lost and really need the GPS right now you know, yeah, we’re operating off MapQuest. Right. Sometimes that’s how I will say we’ll just MapQuest it. I can’t believe that’s still coming out of my mouth. Like how long has it been since I’ve used one? But I still say it.
Ryan Freng:
I try to impress upon our children just how nice the technology is, and I’ll you know when they complain about this over here be. Yeah, do you understand? You know how how great this is like when we traveled as kids. Dad had an almanac yeah, right, triptych, yeah. And then you stop somewhere and get the triptych, or you know, um, yeah, it was a triple a or whatever. Yeah, yeah, uh, you like figure it out. You like learn about geography?
Katie Kennedy:
yeah, it’s kind of cool yeah, I, yes, we just went over that too. I said, you know, can you imagine? Because we were driving around and Arizona said, can you imagine if we didn’t have the GPS telling us what to do? And my daughter was saying when she’s 16 now and saying, well, how did you figure it out?
Katie Kennedy:
Well, I said we would have gone into that gas station. They would have said take a left and a right, then two lefts and a right, and she said you would have had to remember all the way yeah, and you might have gotten it wrong, you know but and then you’d go into the next gas station.
Ryan Freng:
But you would pay a lot better attention.
Katie Kennedy:
Shuffler skills, you know. So, yeah, I mean there’s some of that that I think we do take for granted, and so, yeah, I mean there’s some of that that I think we do take for granted, and so I don’t know that it makes me sound a little bit like a rube, you know.
Ryan Freng:
No, I love it. What did you say? The thing you said at first and I was like, oh yeah, that’s like my buddy who I call in.
Katie Kennedy:
Like a late adopter or no, no with emoji. Oh, then not emoji, then I use emoji.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
I just sound grumpy.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, well, in my buddies who’s like we’re actually reading. Um, I have a book group with a group of guys and we’re reading I don’t know, it’s an encyclical from JP two on the 40th, 50th anniversary of another encyclical, basically on work, the dignity of work. Okay, and it’s the 40 year anniversary of that encyclical this year, so the 80s is when it came out and they were talking about industrial revolutions and uh, factories and the dignity of work and the dignity of the different type of work and technology, emerging technologies and computers potentially taking people’s jobs, and you know, dignity and where’s the dignity at? It just reads like now, but just swap out technology or the computers for AI.
Katie Kennedy:
Sure.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, and he, yeah, he’s the room, so he’s the one who selected this, because he’s like AI is not great, and here’s why. And I’m like, ah, it’s just a tool.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, it’s just a little bit of a contrarian to you know. Well, everybody’s doing it.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
That’s fun. Yeah, well, I think that’s you know. Um, the unplugging question is one that you kind of have to keep asking people so they keep thinking about it, right, and sticking to it.
Ryan Freng:
I think it looks different for different generations too. Yeah, because like that, you know you get alerted, and I’m pleasantly surprised when it’s like you’ve only been on your phone for three and a half hours, but then when it’s like five and something, I’m like what was I doing?
Ryan Freng:
yeah whereas whoever was saying um, justin, or um, that other kid, about the time they spend on it. It’s really fascinating again because, like you know, do I probably spend something like eight hours on on a internet or screen or something like that yeah, um, but then after that, like I’m trying not to be in that, I’m trying to, um, limit whatever my exposure to some things on my, you know, social media, just whatever, like quick, open hits and try to do stuff like this, like hang out with people and talk, um, whereas my kids, you know, because they’re kids, given any freedom, would just be in it, you know, and like it’s like I’ll say, our generation, you know, when technology like this first started coming out, like we didn’t grow up with it yeah, so it wasn’t ingrained. Yeah, so we’re a little more detached from it, whereas, like our kids are not, it’s just everywhere and all the time, and even their social interactions. I think that’s the challenge. We had to hang out with people.
Ryan Freng:
You had to ride your bike somewhere? Yep, you had to use the phone, yeah, they don’t. And they get into this weird kind of surreal social world on here. So I think different generations have it differently as well and, like I don’t know, maybe I don’t know all the younger generations. You got millennials and then is it z, and then I don’t know where alpha beta comes in but question the thing was today was 1996 to 2012,.
Katie Kennedy:
I think was.
Ryan Freng:
Is that what they call it? I know.
Katie Kennedy:
What’s the next how?
Ryan Freng:
old, are we yeah?
Katie Kennedy:
I know, I don’t even. We’ve lost track.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, I think that was yeah, that makes sense because I’m an elder millennial like 82 to, I guess, 96.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, you’re probably right, and I’m an xer which I would say no one on the line even knows. No, I’m not even on the line. I’m squarely in a generation that nobody cares about. That’s so small. And they go like what are the boomers saying? And then what are the millennials saying? And it’s like you know um, yeah, that’s interesting why is it a?
Ryan Freng:
beef with that just like oh, you guys are the grunge, you know like it’s like you’re successful, like I don’t know. The greatest generation obviously had a lot of.
Katie Kennedy:
We can’t live up trauma yeah, and we can’t live up to. You know all that they were, you know, which is just incredible I love the joke, too, of like who decided?
Ryan Freng:
who decided on that?
Katie Kennedy:
like the greatest generation, clearly somebody in that generation, and then we’re just going to go straight into you know letters yeah, and and x and a millennial, like they’re y2k yeah, why, yeah, why is he? You know we gotta start over. I mean, why start so late in the alphabet?
Ryan Freng:
yeah, I mean, who did that? You don’t you?
Katie Kennedy:
don’t ever like one of the gen xers, think why is he? You know we got to start over. I mean, why start so late in the alphabet? Yeah, I mean who did that?
Ryan Freng:
You don’t. You don’t ever like one of the Gen Xers, think Never. It’s like you never hear that Millennials I mean boomers are more of like Joe not not in life, but the okay, boomer. Yeah, More than like. I mean, maybe do you advertise for any brands that specifically are like boomers? How do we reach the boomers?
Katie Kennedy:
Well, I mean, let’s not discount the fact that they have the greatest spending power right now and probably the highest ownership of homes, you know so I can’t say that you know they’re dismissed in any way, in any you know kind of marketing.
Katie Kennedy:
I guess I need that language good yeah, I, um, my unfortunate is probably like the older consumer. You know, which you know so many of. You know I just, I love the, the path that’s been forged of really just staying young. You know that there isn’t this well, you’ve reached this now. You know we’re going to start getting more sedentary and you know it’s like because you’re getting energized adult diapers right, yeah, like all that.
Katie Kennedy:
No, it’s like. No, that’s when you, you get to play pickleball a lot more, I guess, and then they’ll pick up that craze, or you know, whatever it is. I I appreciate that, because I don’t. I’d rather that finish line be pushed out for me, you know to to kind of still feel youthful for a lot longer. So I think they’ve done a service to those.
Ryan Freng:
I think we have a chance to yeah, yeah yeah, we’ll put our own mark on it like the like the way health looks as we age, you know, aside from all the health issues we have in this country. Yeah, like you know, I don’t know what it is Like. 40 is a new 30. 50 is a new 40. Yeah, like you know, you can still be fit and active and feel great and look great. Yeah, that’s interesting.
Katie Kennedy:
I thought the you know like him or not, when J-Lo andakira did the halftime show in the superbowl, I was like that was a real victory for me. That was going like you know, shakira, the prime, my age and j-lo is older and going like they still got it everybody they still got it, you know.
Ryan Freng:
So um every little bit helps right, the psyche Right, right, well, yeah, and the whole age marketing, like when people. I feel like we get a little caught up on what did they say today? Millennials like authenticity, like, yes, like we see how millennials respond to authenticity, yeah, but like I’d be like a hell of a millennial. Or like more in mentality to like a gen x, because I came out of school and got a job and, with that job for several years, didn’t have the economic crisis of 2008 until well into my career, um, but I also value authenticity. I feel like my parents value authenticity. I feel like older generations might just have more patience, um, and just allow for more. It’s like suspending disbelief, uh, versus the younger generation that the way that they communicate online is just like, maybe more authentic in that.
Katie Kennedy:
In that regard, yeah, I mean, I guess, um, I think everybody to some degree, like you’re saying, appreciates authenticity. And you know what actually was a little bit of a moment for me, that that made me smile was when, um, the 17 year old got up there and talked about the term youthquake, and it’s almost like when he started talking as if it was a new thing. And he said so and it started in 1965, right. So you were starting to think, oh, I see, we’re going down this path, there’s’s this earthquake happening now and I know it’s been around for a long time, right, and just this idea just keeps getting reinvented, depending on how they adopted and what looks authentic to that generation. So I like being reminded of that Kind of, like you were saying before, like history kind of repeats itself with just a little bit of a new flavor to it. So, anyway, that was just another food for thought kind of thing from today.
Ryan Freng:
That’ll stick with me a little bit actually what you said there made me think too, like that’s, that’s maybe why like the, the fads that are advertised like get me so much. Like not in a good way, like they annoy me because people would be like, oh, this is the new thing. Like you got to stop doing this because of insulin response and you know it’s like can we take like our understanding from you know our historical perspective, our historical understanding, and then any any newer understanding and do like a delta, like what has changed about our understanding?
Ryan Freng:
you know why that is, and so, like a lot of health and fitness stuff has been refined yeah but the core principles that we kind of figured out through, like the fitness uh and bodybuilding creating, starting, starting like the 80s, yeah, like the fundamentals are the same. So when we get these fads that are like, oh, the fundamentals, it’s not about how much you eat, it’s about the rice, brown rice and not white rice. Right, it’s the last to keep track of if you don’t remember.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, the fundamental. Yeah, you’re right. I mean, you think about the food pyramid. Yeah, right, it’s the plate down, right I?
Ryan Freng:
don’t know. Yeah, speak of marketing Right. Speak of marketing right like now. That’s like our any given joke. Um, when you see something silly advertised, you’re like, oh, that’s the big p lobby or whatever you know, like the the big uh glass lobby.
Katie Kennedy:
Well, they’re getting it in the marketing, so we’re buying more glasses well, if I get back to you know, the, what I believe the true spirit of advertising is that it’s education. This is right, everyone. Well, I mean, it’s the education, right. And so I’m saying you know, put these concepts into something that people can really understand and remember.
Katie Kennedy:
So the food pyramid it was a, you know, probably took all these complex, you know, dietary thoughts at the time and just put it into a graphical element, right, and just said it builds and it stacks. So you get less of this and more. You know, you think about that and you go, you can vilify it, you know, and be like well, look what they sold. It was like, well, no, we were just communicating, right, I’m saying we, I wasn’t around at the development but, um, maybe defending marketers in a way that was like, you know, that’s our job is to kind of distill it right, which isn’t always easy, right, right, say, sometimes writing a one sentence is harder than writing a page, right, and so I didn’t give it a little respect yeah, I mean to that point.
Ryan Freng:
Has there ever been anything where you’re like I don’t feel great about promoting or marketing this, like we need to think about how we handle this?
Katie Kennedy:
you know um, I think for the most part we get to work with more of um you know home products and you know so.
Katie Kennedy:
it’s not like you’re off selling things that you don’t want to sell, it’s just. The biggest enlightening thing is really understanding what connects with the consumer. You know it’s like they can. You can say this product has a lot of benefits, but it only matters to what benefit connects most with or resonates most Right. And so I always love the Dale Carnegie quote of like, yeah, all consumers don’t know People don’t care about you, they care about themselves, right. So it’s always about how this affects me. So I just you know that sounds so obvious, but really kind of I mean the best thing is peeling back the layers, right?
Katie Kennedy:
yeah, you have to peel back the layers and get to the heart of it and then be able to communicate that in a way. So that’s step one is peeling back all the layers and getting to that key insight and then being able to make it seem creatively, whether that’s graphically or through video, storytelling or, you know, written words, whatever, whatever it might be. So I, that’s, I love that element of it and I always think about like, well, what’s my favorite project? I’d always think about like, well, what’s my favorite project? And it’s like if someone were to throw a 100 pages on my desk and say, distill this into a paragraph, I’d be like you know, it’s some weird. I’m like, yeah, I love that challenge, it’s so.
Ryan Freng:
I don’t think you should use AI AI.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, I say I’m choked on my words. Yeah, it’s probably right. There you go. I’m being displaced. It’s time for me to retire.
Ryan Freng:
I mean there’s like the enjoyment. It could be like bespoke labor, like you could have the AI do this, or I will do it as a bespoke copy. Edit.
Katie Kennedy:
Correct.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
So there you have it. I mean just engineer, how do I distill this into one paragraph? Go to it.
Ryan Freng:
yeah, I don’t know I love that too, because when you hit on it like it just feels right and people respond to it, yeah, like magic yeah, yeah, it’s not easy to do no you know, I think people get lulled into while I watch advertising and I I know what I like to see. Oh yeah, it’s well, it’s obvious it’s like well, that message is obvious, like the food pyramid is obvious, well, it’s obvious. It’s like well, that message is obvious, the food pyramid is obvious. That it’s like that it is obvious.
Katie Kennedy:
Now, but coming up with it, that might have been a 100-page paper that came into a pyramid that everybody could adopt and put on the wall of every elementary school or you know, I mean um, and I you know, I think too the the humor aspect of it, of advertising, and how difficult that is to pull off.
Katie Kennedy:
I don’t know if you you know or what you know when you’re talking about. It’s a mo, it’s about emotion and connecting with emotion, because even branding the decision making process is about emotion. If we were just purely rational, we would make most of the decisions we make. You know, it’s like we would buy a lot.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, or the cheapest thing, or you know whatever it is. You know, and then just um, well, it’s part of what makes us human, you know, right? Is that, um, the, the emotion that comes into it, and and being able to connect with that is is not easy. So I, but that’s what makes it fun. So I don’t know, you know which, which emotion you know you feel yourself kind of running into most as you’re creating videos oh yeah, you know what’s.
Ryan Freng:
You know it’s funny.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, it’s like a huge juxtaposition or maybe a huge dichotomy, um huge division, um like when we can do like human trafficking awareness work and like those stories which, like it’s just like a throat punch yeah, like but I mean we kind of think about it too, like you know, a surgeon, um, and you, you get to a point where you can do the work, but we have to remind ourselves, you know, um, to be human as well, because otherwise, like I was doing it for two years and then max started editing for the first time, um, because our other editor moved to another position and he stepped up into that position and started editing some of these human trafficking stuff and like he had a really hard first week Like hearing these stories, sure, and putting stuff together, yeah, and it was good to talk about that because, yeah, I was at a point where I’m like these are always stories of hope, so the despair and fear and anger and hurt and all that, like I don’t hold on to, you know, because I know at the end of it there’s, there’s hope and there’s somebody who’s doing good work and they’re helping other people and things like that. But to to really kind of pull back into that emotional experience, I think helped us with some of those stories and draw that out. So you can’t not watch some stuff, not be emotional, so that crazy stuff and then comedy, right, irreverent stuff, right, you know, and that’s. I feel like that’s really hard and sometimes we don’t quite hit the mark. You know we get close to the bullseye but we don’t quite hit the mark. You know we get close to the bullseye but we don’t hit the bullseye.
Ryan Freng:
And while I was trying to refine that process and I even see that, do you know Gary Vaynerchuk? Like VaynerMedia, he’s a really intense marketer. Be careful, maybe use like a colleague’s computer and look him up. It’s not inappropriate. But as soon as you like look him up, you’re going to get all his ads and all his things and he’s he’s a very effective marketer. Um, he’s kind of like it’s just very uh, uh, abrasive, kind of in his approach, like he’ll talk to someone and be like what are you doing? How many posts? That’s not enough. Do you care about your business? Like if you cared about it, you would be doing this. Um, anyway, they do a lot of good work and they have this one for scott uh paper, scott toilet paper, scott paper products, sure, um, they did one maybe a year ago that was the clogging they called it which was a great kind of indie horror film, like a five minutes. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it no, but I can.
Ryan Freng:
I’m transported there already yeah, I know it’s really great. It’s uh, the in-laws are coming over and what is like she goes in there and they only have the five ply and then afterwards like it sticks up the toilet and then she’s like freaking out because they’re trying to get in there but she’s clawing the toilet. Now it’s still deflowing. And it’s like freaking out because they’re trying to get in there but she’s calling the toilet Now it’s still deflowing. And it’s like this dramatic indie horror film but you know kind of dark comedy and nailed it so good.
Ryan Freng:
They did a follow-up a year or two later. What is that one called? I remember what it’s called. I was like angry about it, but the comedy just wasn’t there. Comedy and production value were just not there. The timing was a little awkward, beats didn’t hit yeah you know it’s uh, it’s just more difficult components to, in my opinion, to comedy, like it’s really easy to get it wrong yeah, well hard to get it right.
Katie Kennedy:
I just um, I was reading an article about Steve Martin’s most recent documentary I think it’s on Netflix, if I have that right, and I watched part one just this past week and you know I’ve been a big fan for a long time. But it’s like talking about, like he’s, you know, a gold standard you for for a comedian and and being a stand-up, and you think about how practiced and tested and all you know it seems spontaneous. You know, but but talking about, um, the highs and lows of his movie career, you know, like he, some of them just were fantastic comedies and others, you know, he were just complete. You know box office failures and you think about even somebody who gets comedy right still gets comedy you know, yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
So again, we all just have to have a little humility yeah, are you familiar with kevin james like king of queens?
Ryan Freng:
oh yeah, yeah, he was talking on a podcast that I listened to. Actually, in the context of fasting, he did like a 41 day fast for his daughter who’s having medical issues, which is amazing, and like, yeah, he’s a fat guy who likes to eat, like, admittedly so. Um, this, these cameras are cool, uh, but the problem is you activate like move mode and like crap like this happens are you out of the I’ll? Give you this. There we go. Alright, I think your is not being.
Katie Kennedy:
I’m moving on, I’m trying to move off camera.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, there you go. It’s following you. It’s great. No, this is authentic. The Gen Z is loving it. The alpha and beta.
Katie Kennedy:
This is it. I didn’t even put on lipstick they’re snapchatting it.
Ryan Freng:
Um, kevin james yeah, that was cool, he did a 441 day fast, um. But he was talking about being at a corporate gig and like being so nervous and like he’s like I still bomb. And he’s nervous about this little corporate gig. He’s like there’s no stage, there’s like a little podium, no one’s looking at me, like I don’t even know that people think I’m here and he’s like I’m gonna go on five minutes and he tells us this and he’s like, just give, give him the money back, I’m out. Just like like I don’t care, I’ll fly because he, they flew him out and everything’s. Like I’ll pay for the flight, like I’m done, I can’t do this. Like. And even him, who you know probably is set, doesn’t need to work for his money, doesn’t want, but there’s dignity in work, he enjoys his craft but is still terrified occasionally of getting up and bombing.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
I think there’s something medical there.
Katie Kennedy:
Absolutely. I think we all need to kind of keep that in mind too.
Ryan Freng:
It’s like like yeah, good reminder yeah, but yeah, so do you, do you feel that? Do you are you like? Not that you don’t want to drive and have goals. You know, get, get somewhere, move. Do you feel like you’ve made it?
Katie Kennedy:
oh gosh, oh, I mean, here’s the thing I’ve got, you know, a dad at 73 who still probably thinks his best years are to come in the office. You know, that’s awesome. You know, I think it gets back to this whole self-awareness of what success looks like, you know, from the achievement to just the happiness, right, and then the space between sometimes and those. I mean, certainly no, I, I think there’s still a lot out there, but I think I’m more relaxed about it. I don’t, you know, winning the silver medal was really touching and humbling and those things are going like that’s something that I would have aspired to and so like it’s really gratifying to have received it. And I also look at it and think I don’t have another. I don’t, there’s not another one. I’m, yeah, kind of hoping. You know so at this point.
Katie Kennedy:
It’s just when do I get the gold now that I’m the youngest silver medal I don’t know if more they just have to put some sort of disclaimer on there why it’s called that. You know, it’s just it’s a silver hair. It’s really what it’s. It it’s our old, you know, yeah, and you know kind of joking about.
Katie Kennedy:
Well, if you get kind of a lifetime achievement award, I guess it means you can retire. I know, you know, but yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I think it happens in small ways every day. Did I do a good job with the kids today? Did I do a good job with the kids today? Did I do a good job with um the team members today? You know, I think some of that success will look like having a little more calm in you know and not feeling you know about getting you know. I just think that comes with age too and like been there, you know, act like you’ve been there kind of thing, and and truly having been there, that you can put things in better perspective. It’s hard to tell people to have it.
Ryan Freng:
You just you have to go through it. You said cultivating calm there yeah, I really like that. Um, how do you do that?
Katie Kennedy:
well, I don’t know, that’s what you said. That’s my next goal okay I’m kind of far enough to know I need to get there. Yeah, that’s step one. Well, some people see, do you think I am calm? I do have fairly low blood pressure too, so it’s really just me passing out. That’s why I’m having a Diet Coke right now. But no, I do think that there’s a certain aspect to that that I think is aspirational.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, you know, uh, just that, um, I don’t know how else to describe it it’s, but it’s something that, um, I think benefits everybody, including myself, but just to be able to sit down and really explain something.
Katie Kennedy:
But when things that you know, and maybe it’s just time of life too, and it’s like I saw, I was in the kids school the other day and on the teacher, the office desk, it said do I look like google? You know, because, like you know, the 50 questions that you get, just like, and when you’re you know the kids are doing, you know, asking questions that some of the time you don’t have the answer to. You know, but you’re kind of jogging your memory and doing that and you’re making dinner and maybe the you know work call might be coming, you know, whatever, and having that presence and you’re talking about, you know, the presence of not having technology disrupting it, but just the presence of sorting through and being you. You know I can, I’m going to answer this and then I’ll get to this, and so then I’m like right, right, right, yeah, cause that’s the.
Katie Kennedy:
Kelgon commercial, If you know, for all the old people watching. You know, Kelgon, take me away. You know just too many things going on, but we should bring that back.
Ryan Freng:
It resonates throughout.
Katie Kennedy:
Well, I mean right, right, that’s exactly right. It’s like just looks like something a little bit different than it did when it first came out, but um well, and this just distracts even more.
Katie Kennedy:
Like on a yeah, you know yes more anxiety inducing level yeah, well, and if you have access to getting the answer to something, you will go find it. Whereas before I was like don’t know, whereas before I was like don’t know, do you get to say I don’t know anymore? Um, but yeah, I so I don’t know what, what, what aspirations, I mean, you know, putting it back at you.
Ryan Freng:
I feel like any time that I’m like oh, this is nice, like you know, stop it. What did I do? Yeah, I did it again.
Katie Kennedy:
It’s like you’re waving your hands I can turn this off too.
Ryan Freng:
Ai turn off, um, yeah, uh. You know, at various stages like so, we started the business 17 years ago but it was nights and weekends, it was on the side and john and I both had full-time jobs and we had families at the time, you know babies, spouses, wives, and you know we’re kind of all fitting it in and then we’re like, oh my gosh, once we just have one job and can work on it. You know, you kind of always tell yourself what you know tomorrow or what then it’ll be fine.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, yeah, and then that you know tomorrow or what.
Ryan Freng:
Then it’ll be fine, yeah, yeah. And then that you know, then that happened. And then it’s like, okay, well, this is great, you know, and there’s less stresses. But there’s different stresses now and uh, now I’m doing all these things and maybe I’m not the best at some of these, so I really can hire some people, that will be good. It’s like, okay, now we have the people and uh, the business is coming in at a good rate and you know, things are great, and like, now it’s good. And then something happens, or there’s a big client or something, um, and so I’m trying to figure out the mindset of keeping my foot on the pedal, but in a way that doesn’t, you know, cause issues at the business, you know, or at home. Like you know, if you push too hard at work, you’re likely ignoring at home. And my good friend D the rock johnson yeah, obviously he he said he here, he’s, he’s actually very quiet. He’s sitting in the next room waiting for the next.
Ryan Freng:
Oh, cool, he’s right after me, yeah um he, he just said balance doesn’t look like, you know, home and work being equal. It’s like sometimes works like this and homes like this, and then sometimes homes like this and work. And I was like, oh, thank you Sharing that very obvious and simple. You know, philosophy that everyone needs to hear, but thinking about how to keep the foot on the pedal but still show up at the kids games.
Katie Kennedy:
Yep.
Ryan Freng:
Still be able to be present with my wife, still have any hobby? Yeah, it’s tough too, because some of my hobbies are this stuff, but and I think I think once I do that then I’ll come up with another. You know, answer right, because it’s always like the next thing and the next thing, the next thing it is, and in some ways it was like something you said just made me think.
Katie Kennedy:
It’s like, um, how can aspiration be letting go of some things? Right, you know, and that’s some of the discernment of it, and that word wisdom, right, well, it’s true, I mean, but we all have that. It’s like there’s some days where you know I make a list and I go, oh my god, I can’t believe how much I got done today, and then I’ll make a list for the next. I’m like it’s just as long, like I didn’t get anywhere like I was in more things now.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah yeah, so, um, I still have that closet downstairs. I haven’t gone through. You know which is. You know, let’s never. I’ll get to it this weekend. Right, I’m gonna take a day off and do that. I’ve read another article three. I was like three in the morning last night. I usually sleep like a rock, so it’s not always, but I, if I I can’t sleep, I like grab a bowl of cereal and read the newspaper. I still there’s analog for you I still get two printed newspapers every morning two, two different ones yeah, so I get the wall street journal and the wisconsin state journal.
Katie Kennedy:
Um, you get a flavor of local and then you know, sure, national, there’s some overlap, but, um, but it was. It was somebody literally talking about taking a sabbatical and going like so here are the things I’m gonna do. Right, I’m gonna, I am gonna clean out that closet and then I’m gonna, you know, and it was such a to-do list that she was feeling just as exhausted yeah right I mean it was really sweet.
Katie Kennedy:
And then she kind of recognized that and just said I just kind of took a couple there’s like the kids want to go. I took two naps and I watched, I binged some netflix stuff and then I just that’s really what I, you know. But I think everybody enters if you’re kind of a hard charger or whatever by nature, to know what that even looks like and it’s like, oh good, I’ve got that downtime. I’ve always wanted to do that other thing yes, yes, that’s 100% what it is like.
Ryan Freng:
I have downtime now. Let me build this other thing.
Katie Kennedy:
That’s half built yes, I’m going to take up tennis now that I have, you know, an, an afternoon free. You know, it’s just kind of like you always. Oh, I think there’s some really beautiful thing about wanting to discover and try new things too, that kind of that energy. It kind of just keeps you buzzing, but also letting go of some of the things that don’t bring that positive energy, I guess. So maybe sometime I’ll figure that out.
Ryan Freng:
Well, in in creative too, like that’s. That’s always the hardest thing. Like you got to come up with a creative brief or a treatment or a script or an article or a yeah, um, you know, uh, marketing, whatever, uh, and like putting that into the schedule. It’s like I don’t know.
Katie Kennedy:
How long is that going to take? How long is it going?
Ryan Freng:
to take Right.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, not all things are equal. It’s like you know, change out the paper towel roll and then come up with an entirely new tag.
Ryan Freng:
It’s like I have two hours here and I have a couple hours a day and then the meetings in the third day. So I before then, yeah, so try to put some of that time in. But I I find and I’m curious in your perspective that like I need to not have the pressure of other things around it often and then just be doing something else. Like like the idea of boredom, yes, like I need, I need to get my mind into a boredom, a place of boredom, and then like there’s a relaxation in my mind and then other ideas can come, as opposed to like, yeah, I gotta respond to that thing and then I gotta do this, and then this is also something that’s really important to get done for another client. You know, like I gotta try to figure out how to put myself in a state of boredom.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, that’s pressure to be like I have 15 minutes to be creative, right? Oh, oh. I think that’s why they say the best idea is come in the shower, right? Yeah, you know, you’re just literally like soap, you know, shampoo, you know.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah. It’s probably the only time in the day that you’re really not trying to really hard charge through. Well, maybe you are, I don’t know, depends how quickly quickly you got to get to it. But yeah, I mean, I do think, um, it’s really important for that, for everybody, to have a little bit of our kids too. You know, um, when they say I’m bored, it’s like good yeah, I’m 100 with you, yeah it’s a good thing yeah, I want, I want that for you.
Ryan Freng:
Be inventive, yeah, be creative, yeah, be a little jerk, like you know, not to me or your mom, but go get in a little bit of trouble.
Katie Kennedy:
Right, and then work it out and get a life skill.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean now.
Katie Kennedy:
I think it’s really important for that creative process, that it’s really important for that creative process. It’s not a checklist or a certain amount of time. I think it is the space between.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, so how do you try to achieve that?
Katie Kennedy:
Like you have some creative goals, like some creative to do’s, Um, you know, sometimes, um, in a way, I work best under pressure, which is contrary, you know, contrary to what I just said, but it’s true.
Ryan Freng:
Oh yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Like sometimes you know you’re just, and sometimes I think it’s like lifting a car off a child.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, you can never lift a car, but when you have to, yeah Like better believe it’s going to happen, or when you’re really up to it.
Katie Kennedy:
You know, sometimes right in the creative process you’re just, it’s just coming right, it’s just and you don’t know how or why. But everything you’re writing is working out and there’s other times where it’s not. And I don’t try to force the times that it’s not, or I tap in somebody else to say I’m a little stuck here.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Can you take it from here for a little bit, help me get out of this rut, and then they end up making it you know better and you kind of on a new path together, so I, I kind of appreciate a little bit more of a teamwork approach on that Cause I, I just think marketing is just the spectrum of skill sets that are all intersecting, and to really try to be all of it is is almost impossible.
Katie Kennedy:
Oh yeah, so, yeah, so that’s why I just I, I guess we build our company all about team and teamwork, and you know, my brother and I, coming from sports backgrounds, understand and appreciate that implicitly that you need a point guard and you need a forward, and you need, you know, and not everybody being point guards, and you know. So it’s um, and working together is just a lot more just the work products a lot better, and and how do you make that happen, though? Because you don’t always produce great teams on the court either, you know, and um, so it’s learning how to work off each other’s you know, know, and being resourceful, right, not trying to take it on all yourself.
Ryan Freng:
So I feel like chat GBT.
Katie Kennedy:
Well, as you can see, it’s not going to be my immediate answer. I am, you know, I’m contacting another human, you know.
Ryan Freng:
I mean, honestly, I think we’ve got a great creative team here and I like chat GBT tool as like, like, give me some other angles that we don’t have here.
Ryan Freng:
You know, like diversity of thought here, and then we have some white girls um, not a lot of diversity, um, and a lot of very similar backgrounds as well. So, you know, trying to find different perspectives, different work that I think resonates within a market like that’s, you know, it’s like the internet or AI or just, you know, just tools moves for that. But that, yeah, as you were saying, that too, like coming up to a deadline, and it could be an artificial deadline, like hey, we’re going to have the client meeting next week, we have an internal review tomorrow, like the only time I have now and to really push and force through that, I think, is an interesting exercise too, and I don’t know if you experienced this, but I certainly sometimes just have to get the garbage out, um, pitch a bunch of really bad ideas and even to to the other creatives and, yeah, they’ll be like yeah, it’s not, no, it’s not great, it’s not, we’re not there, no idea is a bad idea in the brainstorm.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, exactly there you go let it flow, just let it flow. Well, that and that’s like client education too.
Ryan Freng:
When you’re like in brainstorming meetings, you’re like, hey, this is a meeting where we want everyone’s ideas to come out. Even if you think it’s the stupidest idea you’ve ever had, like share it because it could help us understand something in a different way. And we’re not going to have any kind of judgment or criticism or anything, because that’s not what we’re doing here.
Katie Kennedy:
We’re just getting it all out, including the garbage. That’s hard. People have a hard time not going Specific personality types, absolutely not that, and it’s like just let it sit.
Ryan Freng:
Do you understand how much that’s going to cost? There’s no way we can do that. It’s like, well, we’re not there yet, hold that.
Katie Kennedy:
We’re not crushing dreams yet. That comes later. Hold that for tomorrow.
Ryan Freng:
We’re not crushing dreams, yeah, that comes later.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, yeah, usually like that comes to the account department. Yeah, right.
Ryan Freng:
I hear that now Remove a zero.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
I could do the same thing.
Katie Kennedy:
Right.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
That’s always been interesting, kind of growing through the video production and then spreading out a little bit more into marketing, just people’s perspective of marketing and how it’s changed. You know we were not around and um, yeah, I think you were probably around when agencies doing commercials. It was just a whole different ball game. Um, you know, we’ve heard stories I wasn’t around for man men.
Katie Kennedy:
Just to be clear, I did have. I had an employee asked me what were you doing when jfk was shot?
Ryan Freng:
and I was, like you know, I was alive and right, you know, oh my, so anyway, I’m just, I’m just letting you know, mad men was not my era, but yes, yes, yeah, I’ve met marketers from that area and I’m like there are like there’s some great stuff, there’s a little like, and one in particular I was like that, I do not, let’s not talk about stuff like that. But you know, taking a mortgage out on the house to get the equipment to do a project locally because, like, otherwise you’re hiring you know LA or maybe Chicago, now we can produce a commercial, you know very small, yeah, a micro budget.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Oh, but the perspective of phones changing in like 2008. Like I have a camera in my pocket, like I can do this and you know, to some extent right, like anyone who wants to be an influencer has to be their own kind of brand expert and marketing expert. And so graphics and video. Graphics and video. I’m sure you know you’ve gotten good at pre-qualifying, but I always I kind of get a kick out of pre-qualifying. Like a lead comes in, um through, like the website, through some some digital for a project to do, like an art, yeah, and I like always come at it with so much enthusiasm and like I look at the brand and I’m like, okay, this could be great. Uh, you know, um, whatever the pre qualifying message or numbers are, and like I’d be super happy, like when are you available to talk? Oh, so you know. And even something small sorry my wife’s like everything is on fire.
Katie Kennedy:
Okay, Well um that’s when things, no, that’s the. This is going on too long, so text me when it’s four o’clock. Yeah, I can say it’s time to wrap.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, so I can have an easy out. Yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
I’m onto it.
Ryan Freng:
That’s awesome. The only thing I hate about this process is, like, now it’s four o’clock and I’m like, all right, now I’m gonna wrap it up. You know I’m gonna start grilling you on the hard stuff, oh boy, but we wrap up, oh um, well, next time. Anyway, pre-qualifying is fun and yeah, you come at them and you’re like, yeah, this is ten thousand dollars for something small. And they’re like oh, we have five hundred dollars. Um, and I like, almost want to build, like and this is more, maybe more in the non-profit and catholic world like I want to build a non-profit that can get donations and then distribute those to groups who, like, just have no idea about marketing and need help and need funding.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, um yeah because could we get that a lot, yeah, especially from nonprofits oh for sure.
Katie Kennedy:
I mean, I think you know what’s interesting about that is that it gets back to that authenticity word. You said before that actually the lower cost video, like somehow is, is more authentic, but it’s, I think it’s discounting the storytelling value and the journalistic. You know, as you’re about to grill, you know said subject for a podcast. But you know, like it isn’t as easy. That’s why I don’t. I want to demystify like it’s too demystified, right, and saying, well, we know how to do this, I’ve got a camera in my pocket, to your point, you know. And saying, so, we can do it. And it’s like, well, you know, have a little appreciation for you know, we can all do a painting too, right, right, you know what I mean. We can, you know. So I, I, just I, I really want to put that out there for the respect for what you guys do and you know, taking even a story like mine and making it much interesting, my life actually was, you guys did such a good job, you know.
Ryan Freng:
But just all in the creative elements that go through, I, just I, I hope people appreciate that a little bit more than saying well and like, you know the the non video side of like coming up to with a slogan or brand branding or you know infographics or things like that. Again, everyone has canva and can write something, but like does it distill that hundred page of just information and content and feeling down to the quintessential element? You know, that’s the magic.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah yeah, it has a slogan that you know I I don’t always say you know, the slogans make all the difference, but the ones that are really good are really good, right, you know you’re just like I’m gonna sit in that for a second.
Katie Kennedy:
It’s so good, um, so yeah, I think that’s maybe. You know I’d I’d hope to see more of that as um, as a lot of these skills that you know, where we used to have to mock something up literally by hand, or draw something by hand, and you know put it all together. You know you can do it. Draw something by hand and you know put it all together. You know you can do it on Canva to your point. You know, and it’s all at people’s fingertips, and I don’t want to discount the craft.
Ryan Freng:
The artistry, right. Right, because we’re always going to have more developed tools and it’s going to be a little bit easier. And like AI, like we can do some animatics with AI now and that’s one way we’ve done it. But still, if you get a budget, I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m hiring this storyboard artist and these animators.
Katie Kennedy:
They’re still relevant. We should still appreciate what they do.
Ryan Freng:
Well, even if the technology goes such that to operate Photoshop or Illustrator, you’re doing more prompts in AI or you’re doing a little bit of framing and then you prompt AI, you still have to be an artist and have that eye and that feel and guide the tool or utilize the tool Like. I don’t think that’s ever going to go away and when it does then you know we’re kind of.
Katie Kennedy:
Well, that is the human element of you know, understanding and putting the composition together. Right, and that’s something new.
Ryan Freng:
For as long as people have been trying to convince somebody of you know whatever. Yeah, all right, so we are wrapping up, we do this thing. Two truths and a lie, so I didn’t press. Oh boy, so great. Boy, boy, boy boy. While I need a piece of paper too, I of paper to write something down, or you can think about it. Uh, and just to make it more confusing, I want to share two crazy things that happened in my family, because you have kids and this is hilarious. Um, the first is one time I was going home. My wife was leaving, going to her studio. She was a gown maker and altered wedding dresses and stuff.
Ryan Freng:
Then the kids were kind of little and I think maybe always was like 10 and it’s like okay, it’s a half an hour, they’ll be fine, I’ll get home, halfway home and she gives me a call and is clearly upset. She’s like everybody’s okay, which is the right way to, you know, have a phone call like yeah, something’s happened it’s like when school calls everything’s fine yeah, yeah, he’s fine, he’s fine.
Ryan Freng:
His arm is bending the wrong way. However, he can’t feel it. He’s, he’s on ox and cotton. That went dark fast. She calls and she’s like everybody’s fine, everything’s fine.
Ryan Freng:
So she’s like I was leaving and you know, the car was turned around in the driveway. I’m like, oh my gosh, she went in over a kid. And she’s like, you know, it was turned around, it was face forward, and she’s like I pulled out and then I was trying to get on the highway and I couldn’t because the highway was blocked for. And it might have even been like a presidential thing because we used to live by the airport, oh sure.
Ryan Freng:
So then she has to go down through some side streets and gets on east wash, um, so it’s going to its gorgeous studio and she’s like and then people are like honking at me and there’s someone behind me honking and somebody beside me like pointing back. She’s like what’s going on? And she looks in her mirror and uh, above, you know, in the window, at the bottom of the window, in the back, she sees like little, uh, blonde curls, and so she pulls over and jumps out there and our three-year-old at the time is holding on to a windshield wiper and standing on the bumper on the back of the car, and there was two cars. One car that was trailing her, oh man. Another car beside her, trying to get her to notice and stop. Oh my gosh, that’s the trauma we have that that’s maggie real trial.
Ryan Freng:
Maggie was her name. She’s like can I go inside now we’ll spit fire. And luckily she didn’t go on the highway, because that is oh, so that’s divine intervention.
Katie Kennedy:
I think is what they call that so that was freaky, that was true.
Ryan Freng:
And then it’s like a month ago, uh, uh, my watch starts going off. This is at 1230 at night. Then my phone and then my goes like hey, hey, hey, I think somebody’s up downstairs and we have an alarm system and it’s just motion sensors in the main level and it just sends messages when there’s motion just in case the kids get up or whatever. Don’t deal with that, cause they’re young, um, so I was getting that and then I was like, oh, the alarm went off and the alarm called and she’s like, yeah, I hear people down there and I was like I’ll go check it out. Not really, you know, just kind of waking up from sleeping and not really thinking much, and I’m like, luckily I I had more pajamas at night too, because I was like I can get kind of cold, I’ll keep the pajamas on, go down the stairs and I’m like, well, if somebody’s in the house, I’ll just open the door and it’ll set off the alarm and it’ll take care of things. The alarm had already gone off, so I clearly wasn’t thinking things through.
Ryan Freng:
I go down there and I see the doors open a little bit the front door and then I see like lights out front and I’m like what’s going on? And kind of look over and I see a police officer Like oh, that’s good, that’s the police. So I open the door and I’m like hello. And they’re like, are you okay? Like we got, you know, the alert from the alarm system and we came and knocked and called your phone and checked around back and didn’t see any tracks and anything wherever I’m.
Ryan Freng:
So I I think we’re fine and I hear clear and behind me there’s two cops coming out of the basement and they had cleared the bottom two levels of my house and we’re coming towards, uh, towards the front, and I’m like, luckily I had my clothes on, I didn’t have a weapon or anything like I’ve always thought like I’d grab like a lamp or something, yeah, and go downstairs and like I didn’t get tased. Um, but what we figured out happened is, uh, the door didn’t get shut all the way and didn’t get locked, so they blew open, set out for alarm. Alarm company calls Door’s open, they check out the whole area. The door’s open, they want to make sure everybody’s okay so they can come in. Yeah, luckily everything was okay. I didn’t get tased.
Katie Kennedy:
That would have just made the story a little better.
Ryan Freng:
That was hilarious yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Have you ever been tased? That’ll be the. Yeah yeah, you know, yeah, I won’t ask you that, they’re just a hypothetical not yet, but I hope to have an interesting.
Ryan Freng:
All right, do you have your three stories or did I just oh?
Katie Kennedy:
they’re truly like stories. I thought I mean just three things about yourself, yeah oh, it’s three things about. I thought it was like one of those games where it’s like I had to trick you and to know which one was.
Ryan Freng:
Two truths and a lie, and myself and whoever’s online can guess. We gotta guess the last one let’s see.
Katie Kennedy:
I have lived in San Francisco, chicago, new York, dc. I have done a Britney Spears routine on a bar more than once, more than once, and I’ve been recognized by others outside of said situation as the person who did Britney Spears’ routines on the bar, and I was arrested on spring break.
Ryan Freng:
So I’ve been watching your eyes and you’re pretty good at lying. See, the first one, you went up over there. I thought it was up to the left that we lie or down to the left. So the second one, you went down to the left. So the second one, you went down to the left. And then the third one, you just drill it into my face. You’re arrested on spring break was number three. Number two you did a Britney Spears routine on a bar more than once. And then the one you’ve lived in San Francisco, chicago, new York and BC. I feel like I should know some of this. I know you live in California and, I believe, dc. I don’t know about New York. I’m trying to think it’s probably in your video. And then the Britney Spears routine on a bar. So there’s like four details on here and any one of them can be a lie. That’s a good way to do it. And then you’re arrested on spring break. I like to think all of these are mostly true and number two is partially a lie. That’s my guess.
Katie Kennedy:
Number two is true. Oh, really, number two is true. All right, we did. Uh, we had a 49ers former 49ers cheerleader at my place of work and so they taught us a britney spears routine. Then I couldn’t let it just go for the one event, you know. So anytime would come on in the bar, you know, seemed wise to do it on an elevated surface. And there was one time I was at a church event with a friend and I was like reaching for a banana bread and two girls were like talking they go, are you the girl who does the britney spirit?
Katie Kennedy:
and I was literally like oh, that’s awesome okay, here I am out of context and recognized, so at church or church function.
Ryan Freng:
yeah, that’s awesome, yep.
Katie Kennedy:
When you asked me have I arrived?
Ryan Freng:
probably then I ended up all downhill from there, you got recognized for your most famous act, yeah.
Katie Kennedy:
Yeah, it was my biggest accomplishment.
Ryan Freng:
That’s amazing. I thought for a second they were going to take a turn for the worst. You’re like I was at an Easter vigil party and they had a bar, and I can get a little wild with this, kathleen, yes, yeah, okay. So number two is true, all true, all true. Not even yeah. I thought maybe you maybe didn’t get recognized or something like that. Like partially not true, yeah, what about number one?
Katie Kennedy:
I lived in all those cities.
Ryan Freng:
Oh man.
Katie Kennedy:
Okay, when did you live in new york? Uh, I did a professional residency in grad school. I worked for a publishing company. Thought that’s what I wanted to do. Yeah, publishing. So yeah, yep, union square and then dc was dc after that and then california dc was right after, uh, college, graduation, okay, and then I went to grad school and then California.
Ryan Freng:
DC was right after college graduation. Oh, okay.
Katie Kennedy:
And then I went to grad school, and then San Francisco, yeah so, and Chicago is where I did my graduate studies, so yeah.
Ryan Freng:
So number three, you’re resting on spring break. Yeah, they never caught you Did.
Katie Kennedy:
I say convicted, I was from movie stripes. I’ve never been convicted of a crime. No, I convicted. Convicted, that’s from movie stripes. And you’re being convicted of crime, like convicted, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, no, I guess I I did. I do laugh about the fact that my parents let us go on spring break. Um, the four of us only one of us was 18. The other three, 17.
Ryan Freng:
No parents talk about something that would not happen today. Is this, uh, siblings, or your friend group, friend group?
Katie Kennedy:
okay. So we had a lot of parents that were complicit in this and we got off the plane and we get to the hotel and the uh person said I cannot rent a hotel room to you guys. You know. It’s like, well, we’re already here. I mean, we just flew here, it was in florida, it was in daytona beach and you had an 18 year old right one, so they were One. So they were like, okay, yes, technically, yeah, so, but we were, we had no business being there, you know, and weren’t doing anything at all, which is why it’s funny. It’s like, oh, all that, you know, raucous is going down, it’s downstairs and on the beach and everything. We were like, well, let’s key lime pie in the hotel restaurant. So we were not probably spring break that was happening over there.
Katie Kennedy:
You know, we were just watching it from our balcony, so anyway, um there you go. Oh good, I fooled you and they didn’t catch you so didn’t catch me eating too much key lime pie moral of the story.
Ryan Freng:
I hope you can see this at some point as a you could be 17 and not get caught.
Katie Kennedy:
And you’re not going on spring boats with your money.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, yeah, all right. Well, that’s it. That’s all we got. Okay, do you want to plug anything? Is it KennedyCcom?
Katie Kennedy:
KennedyCcom is the company that I run, but yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely an amazing team and you can see the fun they’re having on that on that website and and every day. So, yeah, thank you, it’s a, it was a pleasure. I really appreciate all all that you guys have done for me and you know just fun running into you today too and being able to do and I love.
Ryan Freng:
I love that you got a silver medal award Cause again. It seems like a capstone, but you’re obviously so young and, like I’m, still going to keep kicking.
Katie Kennedy:
I think so. 20 years, hopefully.
Ryan Freng:
I think so, you know you know, like maybe give me another one in 20 years. Like love getting to work on that stuff and and hang out. So thank you, thank you, that’s what we got. I don’t know who we have next, but the rock the rock between the rock. Jonathan, that’s right way to keep that joke on. See you next time, bye.
