073 – Fr. Tait Schroeder – Rome, The Inquisition and COVID

In this Happy Hour podcast, we’re chatting with Fr. Tait Schroeder about the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, discipline within the Catholic Church and Covid in Rome.


  • (13:09) Who is Fr. Tait Schroeder?
  • (19:19) What is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and what role does Fr. Tait fill?
  • (35:12) The Disciplinary Section.
  • (47:32) How has Fr. Tait’s work affected his perspective of his own priesthood?
  • (52:15) How does the Church handle discipline?
  • (1:06:04) Collecting relics?
  • (1:13:44) Covid in Rome.
  • (1:17:43) What was Covid like for Fr. Tait?
  • (1:24:40) Two truths and lie.


Ryan Freng 3:48
Hello and welcome back to a another backflip happy hour. I’m Ryan Freng, co creative director, co founder here at backflip and Lord of the podcast. I’ve decided when I was doing a podcast intro that since I’m co everything in this company, I want to be my own person in the podcast. So I decided I’m going to the podcast, which is kind of like Lord of the Dance. Speaking of Lord of the Dance, we got we got the Lord of the Dance himself, John Shoemaker over here. What’s up, John?

John Shoemaker 4:19
Hey, it’s it’s me. I’m, I’m the director of the co-directors. Lord of the Dance,

Ryan Freng 4:28
and we’re going on strike. Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve seen those. One of the unions in Hollywood is on strike. I can’t read their union logo. So I don’t know which one it is. It’s like, local 600 or something. I don’t know. Hopefully, it all works out for them. But that’s not why we’re here. We’re here to drink a little bit and hang out with interesting people and we definitely have some interesting people today, but first, we must share what we’re drinking. What are you drinking John?

John Shoemaker 4:59
Okay, I I am and it’s lucky that I came in to backflip to do this stream today. I’m drinking the seedlip Pretend gin na Jaane na. Yeah, I have. Yeah, just, I was cutting back for a week giving myself a good detox. I love that. And tomorrow is my birthday. So I’m like, Alright, I’m just, I’ll just stick it out through all go all the way to, you know, birthday celebration tomorrow, and then I’ll be it’d be good to go. But yeah, but I’m still happy to have I love the I think we’ve

Ryan Freng 5:49
you’re detoxing, and then tomorrow, you’re gonna start talking again. Yeah, just talk. Just full on talks.

John Shoemaker 5:57
No, yeah. I mean, you just need to reset every now and then when you get to the I mean, this is a whole other discussion. We I’m sure we, when you get to our age that we could bring into our discussion with people more qualified for this. But you know, when you’re just like, getting that feeling of like, going a tough day, I got a the I need, I need this to unwind, or whatever. Then you’re like not even enjoying it anymore. You know, it’s not for the enjoyment of the flavor and whatever. It’s just so anyway, Carolyn’s trying to join.

Ryan Freng 6:34
She’s, she’s talking in the chat. No, anyway, but she’s like, what makes us more qualified? He’s talking about counselors. Yeah.

John Shoemaker 6:44
Moral from a moral level. Yeah. But I like having something that is like, unique to drink. So I was talking about this, like, what’s it called? Jake’s? Jake’s strong ginger?

Ryan Freng 6:59
Yeah, I have that on my list. You told me about that several weeks ago.

John Shoemaker 7:02
It’s really good. And it has like a little bite to it. It’s really nice with like, seltzer water, or whatever you want to mix with it. And it has that same satisfaction of like, kind of refreshing or a drink with like a little bit of a bite. But it’s not. It’s not alcohol. If you don’t you don’t feel like that that day or that evening. So

Ryan Freng 7:23
yeah, I’m totally down with that as well. And you should check. Check out athletic brewing. I think there would mins maybe, I thought, Oh, no. Yeah, you mentioned those. Yeah, that’s where I got it from there. IPAs are? It tastes like beer. They’re confusing. Yeah. Oh, good. Also, when I know there’s no alcohol in there, I’m like, give me five. I just, you know, want to drink it like candy. i Today am full full on taxing. So I’ve got some gin and some, some healthy tonic. But it’s got the got the quinine, so it gets the job done. And then of course, I’ve got all the other things I’ve got a little coffee, a sparkling. At this point, I just make the sparkling and the Sodastream. And then I just drink the leader of SodaStream or however big this is. I have a problem. All right. That’s enough of us. We’ve lost everyone who was watching earlier because people came to see at least this person and maybe this person as well. So welcome father, Tate and Carolyn. Thank you. Hello. Thanks, guys for coming on. Yeah. Carolyn. Last week. I was like, I think this would be a good week that I come on again. I 100%. Agree. And John showed up. So it was great. All right, father, oh, many

Carolyn Averill 8:49
things. You co host.

Ryan Freng 8:53
You usually just send me text like this is going wrong. You should do this better. And I you know, it helps us

Carolyn Averill 8:58
I never say it like that. I always say hey, you know? Yeah,

Ryan Freng 9:03
it’s super positive and helpful. You’re like the only one who offers suggestions like that. So I appreciate that. But yeah, we got father Tate here before we hear your story. We heard Carolyn last week and several other times. What are you drinking? Father? What did you bring today?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 9:21
Ah, I I’m also taxing here with the with the alcoholic version. This is this is my beverage tonight. This is Vera Nursia, which is brewed by Benedictine monks in Norcia. Italy. This is the extra and it’s a beautiful label as well. This is the the rose window that was in the facade of their church which unfortunately was destroyed by an earthquake. The whole city of Norwich show where St. Benedict and St. Scholastica were born was suffered a very serious earthquake and there’s still kind of dealing with that. But luckily the monks were all safe and now they’re building a new monastery. But they still have their brewery going and so I’m enjoying a beer and Dorsia extra this evening.

Ryan Freng 10:13
That’s awesome. I love that and I feel like that’s kind of part and parcel you have refined tastes. I was I was I almost said, you know, it’s extra. I’m not trying to say you’re extra you have refined tastes. So I appreciate that about you know, I appreciate your refined sensibilities so yeah, and you said tonight so because it is seven o’clock there right?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 10:39
That’s right. So this this happy hour I feel okay having a beer because it’s, it’s well past five o’clock. So

John Shoemaker 10:47
this is the stress that I had, cuz I was like my, one of my strongest memories of father Tate is doing the video we did for the one ACA and yeah, with the family button. Well, that’s right. Yeah. Family. And, and you were like teaching us all about wine there. And I was just like, man, he just like knows so much, like, so much more sophisticated than where I’m coming from. So I I aspire to that. But if I if I ever see myself having one too many, you know, bargain. Busch brand. Drinks outside of deer season or

Ryan Freng 11:40
specifically Busch brand wines.

John Shoemaker 11:43
Yeah. It’s time to go back toward refining.

Ryan Freng 11:52
Yeah, well, that’s that’s what this is. Hopefully this can help reset your sensibilities a little bit. Hanging out with Father Tate. And of course we’ve got Carolyn here. Carolyn, what are you drinking today?

Carolyn Averill 12:03
Well, keeping an eye on brand keeping an eye on the theme. So last week had the blood orange today. Got the cranberry so I do like the cranberry better. Hannah. You gotta be rapid. Identify that she thought I would like this better. The blood orange is great. Love it. Cranberry. A little bit better.

Ryan Freng 12:22
Which one’s the tart one?

Carolyn Averill 12:24
This one primary.

John Shoemaker 12:28
We identified taste like we think it’s like almost like a sour

Carolyn Averill 12:31
almost a sour

Ryan Freng 12:32
Yeah, that’s I was gonna say because I’m not huge on sour so it is enjoyable but it was my my less favorite of the two.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 12:39
Yeah, I would be in Ryan’s camp on on that

Ryan Freng 12:43
staying big sour fan. Yeah.

Carolyn Averill 12:47
He out. He just likes many things. And I tried to convince him to like them. I also like many

Fr. Tait Schroeder 12:53

Carolyn Averill 12:56
I like and I just want you to enjoy them as well.

Ryan Freng 13:00
Also our scholars are sours big in Rome or Europe.

Carolyn Averill 13:04
In Belgium, Belgium. Okay.

Ryan Freng 13:08
Yeah, we’re just wondering why Lightman

Fr. Tait Schroeder 13:11
though Yeah, we’re seeing I think is is kind of growing. Obviously, they they have some mass produced beers here in Italy. Pepperoni, and Vera Moretti. So those are kind of the big ones, but even they’re doing some more specialized things. And there are more kind of micro breweries and things popping up. So they’re the bush lights

Carolyn Averill 13:39
of Italy. Basically.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 13:42
They called the beer Moretti is Baku door or which means the Golden Moustache. So that’s kind of fun.

Carolyn Averill 13:51
And then you do the Trappist. So there’s beer in Nursia, which is not properly TRAPPIST, but it’s brewed by monks. And then try Fontana is in Rome, like it’s just south of the city. So you do have that one as well.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 14:04
Right. And they are TRAPPIST although I believe that some of the Belgian brew masters came down to help the the North Chemonics with their with their production, but

Ryan Freng 14:20
the Belgium like what’s that one that you brought back? Carolyn? Later? I know this West later and yes. Yeah. So we’re in good company when we’re talking about beer and booze and, you know, the Catholic Church forever. Yeah. So let’s, let’s jump. Let’s jump right in. You are in Rome. I mentioned earlier, seven o’clock there. You feel less bad. To be clear. I don’t feel bad about drinking now. We’ve done this 70 times or something. So it’s, it’s just kind of what we do. But yeah, tell us a little bit more about yourself. Who are you? Are you?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 15:00
Great? Well, one, one thing before I delve into that, I, I appreciate you calling yourself The Lord of the podcast Ryan. So what I could do is I could refer to you as Bonsignore here for the rest of the podcast because that literally means my Lord. So

Ryan Freng 15:22
I feel like this that we might get into Muddy Waters too, because as the title implies, we’re talking about the Inquisition and I believe, you know, okay, so your official title is official of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Your title that I’m giving you today is High Inquisitor.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 15:42
Oh, I like that.

Ryan Freng 15:45
So I don’t know that I could speak heresy. I don’t know that I want you guys calling me Lord.

Carolyn Averill 15:52
I think there’s a coup in the making here. If someone sees this title, and your father case name, there’s gonna be like, he’s gonna get called into someone’s office because

Ryan Freng 15:59
oh my gosh, I would love that 100%

Fr. Tait Schroeder 16:03
Then they send me back to Madison, which wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. So shears

Ryan Freng 16:08
we take you back. Yeah. Things.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 16:12
Yeah, so I’m originally from sock city area Roxbury. St. Norbert says my home parish, grew up there in the sock city area and went through eighth grade in the sock cities off prairie schools and but then went to Holy Name seminary for my high school so I’m what they call a lifer. Not every priest is a lifer. But a lifers have been to high school, seminary and continued on. So I did finish there graduated in 94, which was the second to last year that holy name was open. And then I went on to college seminary at Winona, so Immaculate Heart of Mary seminary on St. Mary’s University campus and was there for I didn’t finish my college there but was actually in the seminary for three years. I took a leave of absence for one year and just kind of wanted to continue my discernment, but outside the seminary setting and that was a very good year in God’s grace and Providence, but still felt that call. So after that year of being away from the seminary, I came back into the seminary formation and came to Rome for the first time in 1998. And then I studied at the Pontifical North American college, and so was there through 2003 and went did a STB which is kind of the bachelors level theology, general theology. I did that at the angelicum which is run by the Dominican fathers and then finished my licentiate, which is was in sacramental Theology at San Anselmo, which was Benedictine school. So 2003, a finish and then come back to to Madison, I was parochial vicar at St. Denis parish on the east side of Madison for two years and then was named pastor of Ridgeway and Barneveld. So it’s now St. Bernadette parish. Before it was St. Bridget and immaculate conception parish. So that was I was there for three years. And then I came back to Rome for the second time for studies and that was 2008. And I was here until December of 2012. And so that time I was doing studies in canon law, so church law, not how did

Ryan Freng 18:48
that work? Was that something that you were like, Hey, I think this would be interested and interesting, and you talk to the bishop? Or was that something that was asked of do ask?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 18:57
That was where the bishop Bishop Morlino talk to me to ask me to do that. And as I say, it was a moment of what we call actual grace, like, you know, God entering in at a particular moment and giving you strength to do some things because I said yes, at that moment. So I would have thought about it more, I may have given a different answer. But in any case, I have that actual grace. And I said yes. So because I was very happy in being a pastor and really loved my time there and in Ridgeway and Barneveld, but then kind of step back, so you know, being a student priest is just kind of a different way of being a priest, you know, usually think of priests in a parish setting. But here I was doing work in, you know, back in school, so to speak. So it was it was a different kind of a real shifting of gears. But that process, took three years to get what we call the licensure fit in Canada and then I did another A year and a half and completed my doctorate in December of 2012, and that was at the University of the Holy Cross Santa Croce, which is run by Opus Dei. So did my canonical studies there. Then I came back to Madison. Starting January of 2013, I began in the Tribunal for the diocese as the judicial vicar and held that post for five years. And then also came in, in 2015, to be pastor of St. Peter’s in Ashton and St. Martin’s in Martinsville. So just kind of off the west side of Madison. I was there for three years as well. And then third time’s the charm, here I am back in Rome. 2018 came back in March, actually, end of February started March 2018, at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and have been there ever since. So that’s a little bit about my, my history, where I’m from and what I’m doing and what my background is.

Ryan Freng 21:07
Yeah, what’s what’s the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith? And you know, why are you working there? Like, what do you do?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 21:12
Excellent, excellent. Question. So the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is one of many. We can say offices or bodies within something called the Roman Curia. The Roman Curia is basically those offices that assist the pope in the governance or the running of the Catholic Church, obviously, you know, there are things at a local level, the bishop, the local priests, local, lay people collaborate work, there, but also there’s kind of the the universal nature of, of the Catholic Church. And so, to deal with that, you know, the Pope has the Roman Curia.

Ryan Freng 21:59
And like the home office,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 22:01
kind of Yeah, you could say that, although, I mean, obviously, all the work that goes on in the Diocese’s or various religious orders, that’s all super important as well. But you know, the Roman Curia kind of addresses maybe some of the bigger issues or things that are, you know, maybe a little more sensitive. And so that’s why the Roman Curia has these different offices to assist the Pope, right? Really, that’s our job is we’re we’re here to help the pope in different areas. So the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was not originally called that we are the oldest continuous office within the Roman Curia. So it was started, really in the 1540s. And it had the name of the supreme sacred congregation of the Roman and universal Inquisition. So when you hear about the Inquisition, that’s, that’s kind of where that comes from. Although the Inquisition actually dates back further, but this was it said the Roman and universal Inquisition, because what is the Inquisition? Well, Inquisition, it means that you’re you’re seeking or you’re looking into specific matters, and particularly matters of the faith. So, you know, you can go back, if you think of someone like St. Dominic, St. Dominic, in the early 1200s. And the early Dominicans, they were battling a heresy. Earlier, Carolyn was wanting me to list off heresies. Well, one was this, this heresy of Catherine ism and basically, like the early mannequins, okay, so the time of St. Augustine, in a sense, downplaying or negating the importance of creat creation matter, right, trying to have a spiritual outlook, but then because of that overly spiritual outlook, forgetting some very important pieces about about, you know, being souls that that is that are in corporated in a body, right. So anyway, I don’t want to go into all this kind of

Carolyn Averill 24:39
gonna be a test later. Should

Fr. Tait Schroeder 24:40
I be talking? No, there won’t be a test. Yeah, I don’t want to fail either. But so, you know, local bishops or, or areas are trying to deal with these challenges to the faith. Right. And so they would set up maybe locally. inquisitions are even national. And so the the, you think of Monty Python that the Spanish Inquisition over the expensive position, but this is something that’s more kind of localized. But in, in the 1540s, if we think kind of historically, we’re dealing with the Protestant Reformation, and the Catholic churches, trying to respond to the challenges of, of those reformers, Luther, Henry the Eighth, to being the Calvin right. So we’ve we’ve got all of these kind of challenges to the Catholic faith going on, at this time. And so, to have this universal Inquisition, it’s meant to deal with, or work with protecting the Catholic faith. And so that’s really one of the main things that that was there at the beginning of its formation and continues even to today, although there’s maybe a little change of emphasis in what we do. But in addition to kind of protecting doctrine, and, you know, the, the series of beliefs that we hold as Catholics, there’s also a moral component, right? Because our thoughts and our beliefs translate into actions. So there’s a moral component that was also there very much at the beginning of the, the sacred, the supreme sacred congregation of the Roman and universal Inquisition. So in terms of protecting morality, so crimes like 70, which would be the selling of holy things for money, or certain sins or or crimes in the area of sexual morality? Prostitution, right. So it’s strange, why is the church dealing with that, we also have to remember that the Pope was a temporal ruler, right? He ruled Central Italy. And so there’s also kind of things that are not only about the faith, but then there’s also practical applications for for running that. So at the very beginning, also, there’s this kind of component of of watching over morality now, sometimes, not only with the inquisition of the past, in local places where, you know, you hear about kind of torture or these kinds of things on the History Channel

Ryan Freng 27:45
says, like, you know, tons of torture, and 320,000 or so are estimated, executed.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 27:53
Yeah. I don’t know about I mean, I haven’t studied the numbers, but obviously, you know, there were excesses. Enjoy a little bit of beer there. So there were excesses. But, and even with the congregation in Rome, there was a great reaction to that, because right now, our offices are right next to the Vatican, but before they were across the Tiber River, closer to what would be like the Piazza del Popolo, kind of on the northern end of Rome, that’s the center of Rome. But actually, the people of Rome went and burned the congregation down the people of Rome that is, so we had to move closer to the Vatican. And in fact, Pope Pius this

Ryan Freng 28:48
wasn’t recently right. No, no, this was in the 50s.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 28:51
So no, no, no fires in

Carolyn Averill 28:55
terms of the history of Rome, perhaps.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 28:59
We’re not talking about, you know, 750 BC or whatever the founding of Rome was, but so because of those excesses, right, was trying to get a better sense but also make it closer to the, to the Vatican, Pope Pius the fifth Pope, the end of the 1560s, early 1570s. Very important in the history of the church, he promulgated the catechism of Trent, the missile of trends. So if you hear about the Tritton teen mass, he would have promulgated that missile for the liturgy. So very important Pope but he’s really he was also an Inquisitor, he worked at the office of the Inquisition. The Pope, at the time was the head and that lasted up until Pope Paul the sixth than the 1960s. The Pope was the head of the congregation. That’s why it was called supreme. Because the Pope was was in charge. So that’s why it was called this supreme sacred congregation. And sometimes it was just referred to as last subframe. That was the CDF or we’ll get to what it was called later. But any in any case,

Ryan Freng 30:17
or like, oh, that’s supreme. Exactly.

Carolyn Averill 30:21
That’s Motown. The Supreme, I’m making a supreme reference.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 30:30
Not quite the same. It’s exactly the same but different. So

Carolyn Averill 30:34
I’m gonna make a musical now, Ryan and I are going to write a musical.

Ryan Freng 30:37
Exactly the same but different. I love it. Exactly.

John Shoemaker 30:41
Yeah. Well, the origin and Italy that’s how we ended up with, you know, that new flavor of pizza that added on pepperoni and cheese and

Fr. Tait Schroeder 30:52
right like, that would be like this, like the super supreme, probably in any place. But Pope Pius the fifth, he he actually stopped construction of St. Peter’s Basilica. Because this, the one you see now is actually the second St. Peter’s. So he stopped construction there and had the workers finish our plot. So where our offices are. So our our offices date back to the 15th

Ryan Freng 31:23
is like, let’s get that Inquisition back up. We gotta we gotta get that going. Again.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 31:28
Let’s get that back online. Yeah, the, the heresies still were were in, in, in vogue in the day, they always, in fact. So anyway, you know, the, the history kind of goes on, and it had that, that kind of that doctrinal and the moral aspects, there are a number of other things that the congregation did, in terms of, you know, looking at at saints looking at, it was not directly under the Inquisition, but you may have heard of something of the the index of forbidden books, if you have ever heard of that. So basically, these were books that were deemed to be containing heretical opinions or dangerous opinions for Catholic faith. But because it was dealing with a faith that was kind of linked with the work of the Inquisition, although

Ryan Freng 32:27
like, like Harry Potter, I think Harry Potter is on that.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 32:33
Harry Potter didn’t quite make it.

Ryan Freng 32:36
From from the way some people talk, it’s on the index.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 32:39
That is true. Some people do speak of it in that those terms. But so moving up, say 400 years or so we come to St. Pius the 10th. So we’ve gone from St. Pius the fifth to St. Pius the 10th. So early 1900s, he changes the name of, of the Inquisition to the Holy Office, some to feed CO. So that’s another name that sometimes is used the Inquisition, last to pray, the Holy Office. And the Holy Office again, kept those same kind of the same kind of duties. With Pope Paul the sixth, things change a bit. So he’s no longer in charge. So after the Second Vatican Council, ending in 1965, he kind of renounces being the in charge or the head of that and the names as a separate prefect. So this is kind of the reorganization of the Roman Korea after the Second Vatican Council. So there are these prefects. only partially joking.

Ryan Freng 33:54
People who join in now, exactly so.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 33:58
And also there’s a little bit of a shift in emphasis, right, because, as I said, initially, we’re protecting the doctrines of the faith. But Paul, the sixth wanted to also not only protect that, but to promote the faith. So it kind of takes on maybe a more positive connotation, or focus to say, you know, we’re going to also want to promote the authentic faith of the church. So, so that’s kind of a shift that goes on with Pope Paul the sixth. And so that’s kind of what we’ve inherited today. And St. John Paul, the second had the document called pastor bones, which came out in I believe, 1988. And that kind of gives the structure for the Roman Curia as we know it today. Now, there’s a lot of discussion that Pope Francis wants to also make changes to that structure and whatever and so we’re kind of waiting. It was had that it would come out soon. And we’re still waiting yet because I think there was just kind of some rethinking or wanting to kind of tighten that up a little bit. But in any case, that’s what we’re currently governed by is, is this Roman Korea document that came out in 1988.

John Shoemaker 35:17
And it’s the latest iteration is a lot. It’s like, the guidance on dealing with toddlers. Like, instead of just saying, Stop it, stop doing that don’t interest sister. You need to guide that. Well, what should I be doing?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 35:32
What exactly? is kind of that? Now I work? So they’re different. Yeah, exactly. And they’re, they’re kind of different sections of the CDF. So when I say cdf, that’s short for Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. But there are different sections. So there’s still the doctrinal section, which deals with with questions of doctrine. So like, if people, especially maybe professors, or authors are writing books that may be somewhat questionable or, or whatever they start this dialogue with them to say, is this the authentic faith? Is, is this teaching or this publication? still faithful to what what we believe as Catholics, there’s also kind of a lot of consultation that goes on. So if bishops have questions they can write to us about matters of the faith. Or if there are other bodies or groups within the Roman Curia who want you know, who need consultation, or you know, they’re preparing a document but want to kind of get an ideas. Are we being faithful? Are we are we on the right path, then the doctrinal section will give a an opinion or look into that? I’m in what we call the disciplinary section. So I want to have a drink before I talk about that one.

John Shoemaker 37:06
Well, that depends on your perspective, Carolyn. Yeah.

Carolyn Averill 37:11
Are you an old school Inquisitor? And it’s fun. Yeah, or like a new school Inquisitor, and you’re trying to guide it’s less fun?

Ryan Freng 37:18
I hope. I hope that’s yeah, I hope that’s clear. Like, you know, you think of the Inquisition, and that’s part of what I want to do with this to just help clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings, you know, of the past. And right now, as well, like, your job is not kicking down doors and pulling people out by the ears and saying, Listen here, but you know, promoting the true faith.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 37:43
Right? Well, so

John Shoemaker 37:45
there’s also like, I mean, man, I can’t, I can’t imagine the, the weight that must be on your shoulder to the shoulders of the people in the organization. Because at, I think, at surface level, people who don’t know, just don’t have the perspective, you know, see this as like, Oh, they’re like, you know, these Yeah, rule like, people who are like disciplining, and all the rules and all that stuff. And it sounds very, like, I don’t know, it, doesn’t it. That’s why people name patients about it. But the importance can’t be overstated. Because a lot of people will just use people they know, in their life, to point to to be like, well, I know. I know, one Catholic who’s doing X, Y and Z. I, my priest said this, and they’re Catholic. So yeah, so that’s good. But like, not all those things are true. And it’s a huge responsibility that you’re that you have to like, right.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 39:01
And, you know, that that’s why, I mean, I think it is important to recognize that even at the local level, especially the bishops have kind of a primary responsibility, because obviously, you know, we’re, let’s say, maybe 60 of us total in the entire office, and that includes all these different sections, and including our archives, which the archives are extremely important because they go back to the 1540s and have all of this correspondence, all of these opinions. You know, one of the other things that we do is we, you know, there’s a there’s a congregation called the Congregation for the Causes of the saints, right. So when someone is is being presented to say, well, there have these virtues and And, you know, in this, there’s a whole process for canonization. But, you know, sometimes, you know, they’ve written a lot of things, well, then you have to make sure that what they were writing also is in conformity with the faith, because would be hard to hard to say, Well, we know that this person is in heaven. If they’ve said these, you know, things that were very against against the Catholic faith, so we, you know, but that part of that’s there in the archives and all of that. Also,

Ryan Freng 40:34
I want to, I want to point out, you said, there’s 60 of you in your office or so.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 40:38
And that, that includes, you know, everyone from our Porter, the one who kind of, you know, checks people in or, you know, lets people into the building, and then the, we have people called Gooshie, at the ushers, which, basically, again, they assist people who would come to the office or, you know, kind of take things around to the superiors or do those things. So it includes even even those workers, we have those,

Ryan Freng 41:08
there’s like 60, of you responsible for taking care of 1.3 ish billion Catholics and the heresies.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 41:18
Right, well, so like, the doctrinal section might have 10 officials?

Ryan Freng 41:24
How are you? How are you traveling around and torturing and executing people? See, we don’t

Fr. Tait Schroeder 41:29
do it. So in the disciplinary section where I work, we have probably this is where the biggest section currently, so we have maybe about 18 or 19 officials in our section. So we’re all Calvinists. And, you know, we’re we’re looking at kind of some of those moral pieces, right? So, obviously, and we’re looking at the most serious one. So we look at schism and heresy and apostasy because the church does have penalties for those, which is to be excommunicated, right. So meaning you can’t receive the sacraments. You You might be removed from your office if you have a particular job or position. But excommunication is not a forever thing. It’s there. And if if someone changes, if someone repents has a conversion, then that excommunication goes away, but it’s there as a sign. And you even see this in the Scriptures with St. Paul. You know, he allows this so that people can come back. So, you know, we do have penalties, so to speak. It’s not physical penalties, but spiritual penalties, and then other penalties as well. So we deal with a schism, heresy and apostasy. But then we also deal with offenses against the sacraments. So, like desecration of the Holy Eucharist. For us as Catholics, that would be one of the most serious things and then that carries with it penalties, or the Sacrament of Confession. If someone if a priest breaks the seal, and tell someone what he hears in confession, and that’s reported to us, then that falls under our jurisdiction. Or if there’s, unfortunately, you know, maybe in confession, a priest approaches someone in a sexual way, or ask for some kind of sexual encounter. Because that’s number one inappropriate for the life of a priest, but also it affects the dignity of that sacrament where it’s supposed to be for mercy and conversion and changing your life. When when a priest would use that, in that fashion. It’s so serious that the CDF says we need to reserve that to ourselves because that’s harming the person obviously, who gets proposition there, but also it harms the sacrament, it harms our faith, because people should, you know, be able to trust the sacraments as a place of encounter with God. So, there’s also something that came in a bit more recently, but it because the Catholic Church believes that that ordination is reserved to men if if there are women who would attend to be ordained, that also is reserved to us and then also if anyone if a bit bishop would attempt to ordain a woman, then that also falls under us. And then I guess what is most maybe well known or most kind of in the news is that we address the church’s response to the sexual abuse of minors by clerics. Right. And so obviously, the civil law, the civil authorities, they’re going to maybe, you know, arrest in prison, whatever, priests who would be found guilty of these things, but also the church has its own process, and can have different penalties like being removed from the office, or kind of the most serious penalty is that if priest is found guilty, he could be dismissed from the clerical state, and no longer exercise priestly ministry. So the church needs to respond to that. And again, this is kind of a recent shift in in approach. But it used to be that we understand this as a violation of the dignity of of the priests hood, because a priest should not be doing that. And, and but now, and there’s a new kind of section of canon law dealing with penalties in in the church, that’s going to be that the Pope just promulgated and will take effect on the 12th of or the eighth of December of this year.

But the shift there is that it’s not only an offense against the priesthood, it’s really an offense against the dignity of that minor who was used. And so it’s just a little change of perspective there, they obviously go hand in hand. But that’s how it’s treated in this new penal law for the church that’s coming into effect on the eighth of December. And then, yeah, so because these are such serious things. That’s why the Church wants at the highest level to have an A level of oversight. We don’t always do judge the cases. At our level, we’re often more of a an appeal level or for recourse, but most of the decisions are made in a local diocese. But we still have to give permission for that. And we have to kind of have that oversight of the whole process, given the seriousness of of these situations.

Ryan Freng 47:40
Right. So you’re not you’re not trolling on Facebook? And if Carolyn says something you’re not like, Carolyn, you can’t say that. I mean, you will, because we’re friends, but but that’s not what what you guys do. That would not be serious, like likely not, you know, the serious type of hair heresy or issue that you’re talking about?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 48:00
No. And and, you know, normally, especially for the doctrinal question about heresy. You know, it’s really a lot of like books or more, kind of, shall we say, officials course syllabi, or something like that

Ryan Freng 48:20
are substantial content. Yeah, exactly.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 48:23
Obviously, the internet is a big place, and a lot of

Ryan Freng 48:28
it’s a big file.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 48:29
But we don’t go after that. But you know, if, if certain things are maybe reported to us, from a lot of different ways, we may, we may need to look into it. But oftentimes, we’re looking specifically maybe at those more, kind of if we want to, say seminal points where things can start going off the rails, like so if you’re if you’re looking at someone who’s who’s teaching future priests in the seminary, or in a Catholic University, where it’s problematic, that’s what we’re going to maybe look at a bit more seriously, because like, again, yeah, everything’s out there on the internet, and we won’t reach the end of it. So

Carolyn Averill 49:19
I have a question. So, you know, thinking about you’ve been doing this for three and a half years, and you’re dealing with some of the most painful and most scandalous things that happen in the life of the church. How has this affected your perspective of your priesthood?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 49:43
That’s a great question. Um, so when I read the cases, I am saddened sometimes I’m very angry. Um, and you, you see, this, the sadness comes not only because of the harm that people have suffered, sometimes the sadness comes because sometimes the allegations are made, but maybe maybe false or, you know, because they have been so long ago, they’re not maybe able to be proven so you kind of have people in limbo. So that’s kind of a sad reality. But I think for me personally, as a priest, I, number one, reminds me and calls me to be holy. And strive for that holiness, myself, I mean, I need to strive to be holy. And obviously, that’s God’s grace, he’s the first one to help us on that holiness. But it’s a reminder of, of my call to be holy. And then it’s also a reminder of, of the gift of, of the priesthood. So as a priest, I really sense it as a gift and, and to see the sadness of of a priest who will lose that because of what he’s chosen or done. It’s, it’s, I want to say, maybe a healthy kind of fear that, you know, but for that grace of God, I don’t want to be in that position. Right. So it’s, it’s a sense of trying to be holy, in a sense of trying to value this gift of the priesthood that I’ve received. And to try to live that out. I mean, I think, you know, the, the work itself is, is difficult. There’s a lot, unfortunately. There’s a lot piles of stuff that come in a lot of

Carolyn Averill 52:13
diagrams, remember the diagram of your office. So when I went to Rome, it was like two months after father Tate arrived, and we were having coffee, there’s a little coffee shop right up the way. And he’s like, Well, here’s my office. And so he’s drawing his diagrams, like, this is my desk. And this is my bookshelf. And this is a pile of cases. And here’s another pile of cases. And this is another pile of cases. And this pile is threatening to fall over on top of me. And I was like,

Ryan Freng 52:39
Huh, oh, no. Wow. Okay,

Carolyn Averill 52:41
that sounds super fun. So glad you’re here. Maybe you could just leave, maybe we should just like, bring you back.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 52:49
Do a rescue mission? No, thankfully, none of the piles have fallen over on me.

Carolyn Averill 52:56
OSHA in Italy. So like, what would happen if you were injured on the job?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 53:01
I know, and I didn’t sign up for that workman’s comp insurance that the Vatican offers. So I wouldn’t be out of luck. But

Carolyn Averill 53:09
we would we would rescue you don’t worry, we’ll send your team in to extract you will be great.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 53:16
You know, like I said, though, it’s a lot. I do sense that it’s very important work. So I mean, in that sense, I have the kind of inner strength to continue on with kind of looking at a lot of things that are super unpleasant. Because I know it’s, the church doesn’t need to respond to this. The church does need to, you know, if if someone is falsely accused, to say, we don’t believe that this happened, or if someone is, is accurately accused, and they’re guilty, they need to be justly punished. And, you know, that’s, that’s important for the church to do. So

Ryan Freng 54:03
what what does that look like? And also I love I don’t know if anybody watching if you don’t know, Father Tate, or haven’t played a board game with him or hung out with him. He’s a very sweet man. He can definitely play his games and we always joke, like board games. We always joke too when we make a mistake, or if we accidentally cheat in a way that might have helped us. We’d be like, Father Ted would not be okay with that. But you’re in a good you’re in a good role.

Carolyn Averill 54:34
Father Tate is probably like waking from a nightmare right now. He’s wondering what is wrong with the world. We had accidentally cheated in the game and it was like, Oh, Father tapes can be so displeased.

Ryan Freng 54:45
Yeah. And you mentioned you’re you’re in the office of discipline, I believe. Yes. And I just love that because I feel like I I have anger issues. And I tried to, you know, work through those and I have kids and that’s that That’s where they come out, you know, I get very angry. And so when I think of discipline, I think of anger, but I don’t you know, incorrectly. But I really appreciate that, you know, someone like you again, somebody who I think is a very kind person is in the office of discipline. So what does? What does that look like in what you do?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 55:20
Right. So, you know, there are a lot of, they’re kind of a lot of different ways that that cases are dealt with. They could there could be a whole judicial trial in the church, there could be a kind of a more streamlined process called an administrative process. If something is too old, we the church kind of has also like a statute of limitations. So a lot of you know, the civil law or jurisdiction has a statute of limitations. So, you know, they wouldn’t maybe treat a case if it happened, you know, a certain amount of years ago, because it’s just difficult to prove. So the church also understands that and sometimes sometimes we can, you know, derogate, or give you no sense that we can go back and look at those old cases, but often we don’t, because it would be hard to prove one way or the other. So, you know, there are a lot of different ways you can treat it, but what what could be the possible penalties? Well, one, you could I mean, like to say the the worst one is to be dismissed from the priesthood, the clerical state. But also there can be

Ryan Freng 56:43
real quick what is what does that mean? You don’t, um, become a priest. But what?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 56:50
So that’s, it’s, it’s a unique thing, because sacramentally we believe that once you’re ordained a priest, you’re a priest forever. Right? So there’s, there’s a indelible mark on your soul, which says, You are a priest, however, that that sacramental character that you have, the sacramental identity, often needs a kind of approval to to direct it or focus it in a certain way. Like a priest needs to have faculties to hear confession, or, you know, there are a lot of different things to celebrate a wedding to officiate a wedding, the priest needs special permissions or whatever. So you’re going to lose all of those. You You don’t, you could never officiated a wedding, you can never preach you, you can’t you don’t celebrate the mass again. Which I mean, obviously, that for the priest is the biggest thing. Now, it’s interesting that the priest who is dismissed from the clerical state could hear a confession in if someone is dying. Because the church says, that’s so important. We want this person to be right with God when they meet him at his death or her death, that even that priest who was dismissed could hear a confession in that moment, even though normally they never could hear a confession. But yeah, so that’s what that means. And then you cannot dress as a priest. You don’t have you would still be bound to celibacy, but often that’s dispensed at the same time, right? So when we’re ordained, we, even as ordained a deacon, we we promised to be celibate. Now, that would remain, unless there’s a special dispensation given those are often given together, when you dismiss someone, they could be also dispensed from celibacy. Like if there’s a judicial case that goes on, the priest could be dismissed, but not dispense from celibacy. And he would have to ask for that if you want so. So that’s what that means when you’re dismissed from the clerical state. So all of the things you think of a priest like I’ve got my collar on. I can’t do maths, can’t do wedding can’t do baptism. You know, none of those normal things that I can anoint, except again, if those there’s maybe that danger of death. So it’s really limits for you completely what you can do. Then other ways, though, you know, if a priest isn’t dismissed, they can they’re they can have their ministry limited severely, right. So they may not be able to minister publicly. So they could maybe have a private mass, but they may not be allowed to dress as a cleric or there they could be asked to live in a specific place to kind of give supervision. I mean, it’s not like you’ve got to Have a monitor on your leg or anything like the civil government can do. But it can be a way of saying, No, the church, well, we knew we were going to provide for you. But we also want to keep an eye on to make sure that you don’t go back to this behavior from before. With with this new book of of canon law that’s coming out, there are actually some new penalties that that were added. Especially financial ones, so you can make them pay a certain sum, or you can remove pay. So that’s a big thing, and obviously could have a real impact on on someone lose your Tiktok followers? Right? Yeah. That would be an example of also of a prohibition like, Okay, you could say you can have no social media, right, as as a cleric, because the priest has to obey the bishop in the sentence. And that’s assigned as a penalty, or given as a precept that’s a precept is another thing in canon law, which kind of, it’s like a, it’s like a little law for an individual, right, you can’t do this, you have to do this. So those things could be imposed in there. You can also give penances, which are which are not technically penalties. But you know, it could be like, you have to pray a rosary for victims of sexual abuse every Friday for 10 years. You know, it could be something like that.

John Shoemaker 1:01:47
It’s sort of like probation and community service.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:01:52
Yeah, a little bit, right. So sometimes you’ve heard maybe have a life of prayer and penance. And that was something you know, especially when, when there’s the case is very old. And you can’t really deal with it. What can the priests do? Well, you can ask him to pray, you can ask him to do penance for either what he did, or even for, you know, what others have done that have caused, you know, a lot of harm a lot of people to leave the church, a lot of people to, you know, not, not believe or not kind of be connected anymore to the church.

Carolyn Averill 1:02:28
I think that’s one thing that people misunderstand about canon law. So Ryan, you’re talking about photos of this very, like sweet, kind person, I mean, you can teach a game very well, because you’re not, you don’t jump down someone’s throat for doing it incorrectly, you might have a preferred way you would do it, and you will let that be known. But you’re not going to just automatically slap the hand of someone for doing something incorrectly or actually incorrectly. And I think that’s a misconception that people have about the law, whether it’s civil law, or canon law, which is a little bit easier to speak on. Because there’s this restorative sense that there is a right conduct, there’s a way that we ought to behave. And by God’s grace, we can do that, you know, we all will err in certain ways, but we can reform ourselves, we can become better. And the law is helping to guide that process, not in a like slap on the wrist kind of way. When it needs to be it can. But it’s more meant to bring you closer to God, it’s more to right the wrongs of original sin and the ways that we can cooperate with sin. And I wonder, you know, what are some other kinds of misconceptions that people have about canon law about like the work that you do the work that in general, you did not just see particularly?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:03:47
Yeah, I mean, I think so the church has a very long tradition of having her own law. And why? I mean, you could number one, you could ask, Well, what, what does it matter that the church has its own law? Well, because it’s a community and to govern, or to guide or to lead a community, you need to have rules, right? You can think of, you know, you know, any kind of sporting club or whatever it might be, there are rules

Ryan Freng 1:04:25
because of what you said their sporting club, or

John Shoemaker 1:04:29
you’re clearly an athlete.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:04:32
Yeah, right. I’m athlete anyway. But, you know, you you, you would have these rules, because it’s a group, it’s a society so that that’s the church has this long tradition. But I think one thing, and this is a challenge, you know, and I think you see this, you know, in the world of politics and legislation and kind of the civil world laws are being used in different ways to get a certain end or goal, as opposed to what ideally the church is, is doing with her lots. It’s not to arrive at a goal, it’s to arrive at truth and justice. And obviously, that is, I think, because people have the sense of law is that it’s coercive. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a tool to get to my goal. Right, I’m gonna make this law so that we force everyone to do this. The churches

Ryan Freng 1:05:39
can, can be that as we see, you know, in our country these days,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:05:44
absolutely. And, and obviously, even in the church that sometimes is there. But but but the real goal behind it is to look at the truth, and, and justice based on our belief, you know, all of our beliefs as as a Catholic Christian, right, so to have that, that focus. So that I think is one kind of misconception, or maybe what we’re what we’re doing, I think the other another maybe issue is, there are limits to what the law can do, right? I had a professor in my Canon Law Studies, he said, you know, canon law is not the only thing in the church. And it’s not the maybe it’s not the most important thing in the church. But it’s a necessary thing in the church. And it’s kind of like, it’s kind of like your skeleton, maybe you don’t see it, maybe you don’t appreciate it, you need to have it, but it’s not the whole thing, because you need a brain obviously, and organs and skin and all of these things. So it’s, it’s a whole complex, but if we, if we either put too much or too little emphasis on what canon law is, then that’s where we get problems. And I think we can see, kind of in the history of the church where there’s a pendulum swing, one way or the other, like, law becomes too much, you know, and then you can get some of those excesses that we were talking about earlier about with the Inquisition, versus not doing anything. And that’s why we have so much reaction and negative negativity towards kind of the church currently, because there were decades where nothing was done in terms of the church churches kind of reaction or, or response to some of these problems that are there. So I think those are a couple of things that, you know, in terms of understanding what canon law is, it’s important to, to keep in mind.

Ryan Freng 1:07:51
I like that that analogy too. Or just that that kind of thematic idea of the pendulum, in that I feel like we see that in all areas of our lives. And it’s, it’s helpful to understand that because John and I have had several experiences in just non Catholic areas and non Catholic groups. And it’s all it’s always about, you know, tolerance, tolerance, tolerance, but oh my gosh, you’re Catholic, don’t don’t say anything. Except, I feel like that, oh, my gosh, you’re Catholic, don’t say anything is more of a self imposition. Kind of a response to just kind of cultural sentiment than anybody that we’ve ever dealt with. And we were on a trip, doing tribal, you know, indigenous kind of cultural awareness work. And this collector had a whole room full of all these sacred objects from every faith, including the Catholic faith, you know, he had a bunch of relics. He had a bunch of what was I gonna say?

Carolyn Averill 1:08:59
crucifixes are

Ryan Freng 1:09:01
most intense? Yeah. And John and I are like, is that? Is that Jesus in there? Or is that just old crusty bread? And I didn’t ask, but John actually asked him about it, you know, because, like, Are we there to rescue Jesus from this collector? who just doesn’t know? And well, apparently, yeah, you could tell us

John Shoemaker 1:09:23
more. I was just thinking the the word. Because I don’t actually know and the word that probably is better is curator. He calls himself a curator. So he hasn’t sought the caretaker. Yeah, necessarily, like people have actually gifted these things to him. Like world leaders have come to this place and and, and so he is very respectful about it, but it was definitely like a thing that you’re like, alright, this is a strange scenario. And I I waited till we were, you know, done working with our client, and we’re on our way out the door because I was always, you know, you’re always trying to balance these things, it’s like, it’s not really my place to, like, blow up this entire, like interview that set up here. And I just asked, I was like, I’m just wondering if you know, if those are consecrated, whatever, and it’s like, oh, and he actually was surprised, I think that somebody, like had some care about some sort of religion, because I think he probably encountered so many secular people. You give me a very confusing answer about having some priest friends and a priest in the family. And, you know, like, Oh, don’t worry, nobody ever touches, touches. You know, priests will actually asked me sometimes if they can borrow them, early adoration and stuff. Okay, I’m still confused. But I’m not sure how appropriate this. But it was just, it was interesting, because the write a letter, like Ryan was saying about, like, tolerance, and like, respect, and whatever, we learned a lot about, like the sacredness of eagle feathers, and eagles and Eagle parts and stuff. And the how that it’s illegal to sell, you know, eagle feathers, and whatever, and that they have special permission, through federal things, to actually participate with the Fish and Wildlife Service to protect eagles. And then to, like, hold on to and distribute the feathers from like eagles that have died, or that they’ve collected during molting or whatever. But that there’s no, there’s no trade in it. There’s no illegal trade in it. And, and then that, you know, you need to be respectful of the sacred thing for their population. And I was thinking to myself, like, that’s great. That’s really cool. And I’ll be respectful. But like, it’s the same thing, isn’t it? Like, what? Are we good at getting it back the other direction? Like, if it will be a big deal for me to have a bunch of eagle feathers? And just have them up in my house and be like, Oh, these are these cool? I just got them somewhere? Then, you know, do you see what you’re doing with like, having all these other religious artifacts like?

Carolyn Averill 1:12:28
Yeah, I think it’s interesting curiosity, like some people are just curious. And they like collecting things, or they think something looks cool. They there’s an ignorance and not in a pejorative way. There’s just a lack of understanding about the thing and the meaning of the thing. And I think most people are respectful. If you say, hey, actually, this thing means this, they are appreciative of knowing more about that area, that topic, that faith, whatever it is, and then I think, you know, like the curator that you’re talking about, I mean, you probably didn’t have a lot of time to broach the topic either. So probably wasn’t the ideal situation. But I would like to think that a guy like that is probably trying to be very respectful. And that if he knew what these things meant, then there would be a difference in how he presents them or takes care of them. Or if he should even have them or not, Oh, I

John Shoemaker 1:13:16
see that the idea at least. And if he true if he was being honest with me, and he does have, you know, priest friends or family, and those pretty smart ones that are cases shown up on father Tate’s desk, then I would hope that just seeding the idea of like, because I was just like, Yeah, I just wanted to ask, because, like, if they are consecrated like that, you know, I’m sure that there’s a church around here, or if not, like, I know, priests that would that would take, so just wanted to, just wanted to ask, and he’s like, Well, yeah, thanks. Thanks for your concern. Yeah, it’s good. I’m glad that, you know, you guys care or whatever. And then he kind of left it there.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:13:56
Right, you know, in terms in terms of our work at the congregation, and, you know, our doctrine, our belief, it is, it is important, it is it is sacred. That’s why That’s why we have an organization like the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, because what we believe is important, right, and it has an effect. And so I think that, you know, whether it’s, you know, those physical objects, but also our, our beliefs, what we teach, what we share what we write, right, all of those things also can have either a very positive effect or a negative effect. And so that’s why I think the the work of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is, is vital. And it’s important. I mean, I, for those who don’t know, we have a great website, actually on the Vatican website, if you go, you can like it down at the bottom, they have kind of a place where you can click on the different Roman Curia, offices. And then if you go to the Congregation for the Doctrine of faith, we have all of our documents there, which are the doctrinal things, but also some of those disciplinary things that that we deal with, it’s very useful, very helpful. You know, like, most recently, and this was one of the little catch lines that you had, it was COVID, we, you know, we have the Congregation for the Doctrine of faith came out with a statement about vaccinations and the morality of them and, and, you know, respect for conscience, but but also weighing, you know, kind of a global health pandemic. So, I mean, it was a very, I think, balanced and good document. So, anyway, this that has all kinds of things, you can go and look and see some of the work of the, and I see the link there, that’s great. You’re very tech savvy,

Ryan Freng 1:16:08
I’m on it, I’ll put it in chat, too. It’s, I mean, this website is great. Everyone’s gonna want to go to it.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:16:14
Why not? So, but in any case, the just to talk a little bit about COVID, it was a weird experience. Now, Carolyn has been to Rome, probably more than I have, at least in terms of trips made in cold time here. But trips, you’re probably close. In any case, it was really odd to be here, you know, because obviously, Italy was hit very hard with, with COVID. And the restrictions were very severe, especially last March, March of 2020. And it was it was a ghost town. And it’s picked up somewhat in terms of tourists and pilgrims, but it’s still very, it’s down. And, but but to see St. Peter’s to see, you know, the Spanish Steps empty, something I’ve never seen in my life. So it was it was really kind of eerie experience. And you know, you had to have, so I still went into work, many people didn’t go into work at all, but during this complete lockdown, but you had to always have papers with you, the Caribbean Yeti, which is kind of like a state police force, they could stop at any moment. They needed to see that paper, they would actually call your work to, you know, double check that you weren’t lying.

Carolyn Averill 1:17:54
People had zones you could only your home.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:17:58
It was it was almost worse than the Inquisition. They had, they had fines, and they were stiff. But yeah, like if you passed from one community, which is kind of like your city, if you pass from your city bonds to another, you needed to show these papers, they had roadblocks stopping so it was really very, very surreal, in a sense, because Rome, you know, all all roads lead to Rome. And that’s a very true statement. And, you know, it had so many people so many pilgrims, but then to see it emptied was was just a surreal thing we have currently, you know, still a lot of restrictions, they have what they call the green pass the basically proof of vaccination or having had COVID and recovered or having had a test within the last 48 hours. So and you need that like even to go out to eat if you’re going to eat inside. So it’s a different environment than at least in in Wisconsin when I was home, this last August. Very different kind of environment. Much more controlled. So yeah, you say, the Inquisition, it’s, it’s it’s a different sort of Inquisition here for your COVID status.

Ryan Freng 1:19:28
Yeah. I did want you know, we’re about 120. I want to respect your time and our viewers as well. But I did want to get, you know, a little bit personal with that. Like, what, what was that like? You know, I know, you know, being a priest. Living alone is something that a lot of priests face because they don’t have community where they live with other people. You know, some priests might even be in rural parishes where they don’t see their brother priests. So very frequently. Now, when you go into the office, I’m sure you see a lot. And there’s a lot of, you know, a lot more going on. But what was that like? For you? You know, like, what? What was the most difficult for you?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:20:13
Yeah. So I think at the beginning, so interesting. So I live, this is called the villa stretch where I live, you see, in this part of my, my apartment here, the villas stretch is a house that is owned by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, and for American priests who are working for the Vatican. So they were doing some very major renovations, we have two buildings, with different apartments in them. And I was in the one that was being worked on, and we moved back in the day before Italy, completely shut down. So I was happy to be at least back home, but it was very difficult because our people, you know, who, who came in, you know, for our what I want to say, you know, those who help in the kitchen, or whatever it was, it was very difficult for them. I think there was a lot of unknown at the beginning. And certainly, you know, you saw and I’m sure you saw back home to a lot of these pictures out of, you know, northern Italy, that that area where it really hit hard, and they had like these army vehicles carrying away the deceased, who, who weren’t able to be buried. So there was just a lot of uncertainty about it. And all of the other seminarians who had gone who studied here in Rome, they had all been called home. So I was kind of the only Madisonian left here in Rome. So it felt a little lonely that way, and kind of just, well, we don’t know what to do. But anyway, going into going into work was always a little bit challenging. You kind of wondered, well, is it? Is it a matter of? Yeah, is it a matter of they care about you? Or they need the work done? Kind of a question. But

Ryan Freng 1:22:26
were you were you going into work when

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:22:31
I went into work about every other day? And

Ryan Freng 1:22:35
so they Yeah, they still let you go into work.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:22:37
Yeah, so um, but again, you had to have your papers to show and you know, at that time, I was the only kind of native English speaking official there. We have a couple of priests of Indian descent one of German descent and do some cases that are in English, but I’m was the main one at that time, we have since added the a new English official English speaking official in the disciplinary section, so it helps but in any case, when I was going in, it was mostly because of those language questions and issues. We needed to have an English speaker in there. So so that’s why I was considered an essential worker because of English.

Ryan Freng 1:23:29
And what what like yeah, what was kind of difficult, like did community change? Do you do regularly hang out with your brother priests or families or friends? You know, obviously, you’re in a completely different country. So if you’re interacting with your family back here, friends back here, it’s it’s online anyway. But right, what was the one

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:23:51
blessing I would say is to have other priests here at the village ostrich. We had kind of that had some of that group. And we were all kind of going through the same thing at the same time. So in that regard, that helped a lot. And also being a priest. I know, I know, many Catholics felt. I can’t, I can’t get to mass. I can’t get to confession, you know, we lived in a house of priests. So we have a chapel we can celebrate mass, we had priests we could go to confession. You know, so in that regard, spiritually, it was. It was important. I also went we have a convent of Carmelite sisters. That is very close by and I’m one of the chaplains for them. So I was able to at least go there. They kind of wanted to make sure we had a very limited group of people who went and again if the Italian government did allow certain religious exemptions for for that so you know to go even though Were there but just you know, walking five minutes down the road. I made sure I had my, my, my papers with me so. So in that regard, you know, it was at least good. We had a bit of community here. And so that was helpful.

Carolyn Averill 1:25:18
Yeah. Go beyond the Holy Office. Like was that kind of the furthest you went during the real significant quarantine lockdown?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:25:29
Yeah. Because you could only go to work the doctor or the like the grocery store or pharmacist or go home? That was

Carolyn Averill 1:25:38
it. You went to St. Peter’s I know a little bit.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:25:41
Yeah. So I mean, because the CDF is right next door, you could go into St. Peter’s, which was empty. I mean, and so it’s beautiful to see. But it’s very awkward. Or a meme, not awkward. Uri.

Carolyn Averill 1:25:59
It’s lifeless. Like usually there’s a lot of life in the space. And then it’s just

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:26:06
without any people in it was quite something. And in fact, you may have seen that prayer service with Pope Francis out with this empty square. That that spoke about, you know, volumes to what that that time was like hearing.

Ryan Freng 1:26:26
Yeah. So we are kind of coming up on 130. But I do want to hear two truths and a lie, especially because at the beginning, Carolina happily, you know, characterize said Ooh, but Father Tate never lies. So how’s this gonna go? Amazing.

Carolyn Averill 1:26:44
How it affects him when he has to lie in the costumes. Yeah, if you can’t do it, you can’t do it. Yeah,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:26:52
like, what is it that one night werewolf for whatever? Yeah, terrible at that. There’s another one. I forget the name of it. It’s like a sci fi one. You gotta lie all the time. Terrible. Terrible. Okay, here are three stories. Tell me which one is not true.

Ryan Freng 1:27:14
All right. And if you’re playing along at home, Carolyn, do you have the coasters? Yeah, we just got our new coasters in. So, Father, we’ll send you some of those as well. But if you’re playing playing along at home, and you post in chat, send us your

Carolyn Averill 1:27:34
experiences here for this. Yes, I

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:27:36
see that I send you stuff. Those those posts you would come in in handy. They look awesome. So you can send them over with one out with either father powers or father wanted who are coming back over but if not,

Ryan Freng 1:27:53
Christmas time? Well, we’ll have the the other producer this producer. Wait, where are you? Sorry. This producer helped with that.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:28:01
He’s very good at that. Okay. Yeah. So I once ruined Advent by wearing a Packard tie.

Carolyn Averill 1:28:13
Oh, like I you ruined advents in terms of like a liturgical aspect or like your family.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:28:21
I don’t want to give too many details I just wanted Yeah, but I ruined

Ryan Freng 1:28:25
Yeah, it’ll be hard because we’ll we’ll also I wanted to I wanted to share this real quick. I forgot to do this. I always have to do this because it’s so much fun.

I know so that people know what’s going on. By the way, that was that was Maggie like, I don’t know, a month ago, I had her come down here. And I was like, record this several times. She was

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:28:54
okay, I have met Pope Pendik three times. And the last one is my worst. flight experience took me three days to get from Rome to Madison.

Carolyn Averill 1:29:10
See, I feel like that was definitely true, because I know he’s had some really severe delays. And he’s not happy about it, as no one would be, but particularly this pleasing to Him. Yeah, because he needs to get a credit card that has lounge access, but he’s refused to date to do so.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:29:34
Not as adept as you are miss a rule about working the credit cards.

Carolyn Averill 1:29:38
I tried to teach you so many things and you’re sure she trained.

Ryan Freng 1:29:44
So the second one’s difficult too, because you sent two pictures of you and Pope Francis I believe. But you said you’ve met Pope Benedict three times, right? Okay, that’s tricky, because our advertisement today was two pictures of you with Pope Francis. She

Carolyn Averill 1:30:02
was elected she was still there. So the first time could have been like, as Hi, Maggie.

Ryan Freng 1:30:08
Yeah, this is to choose and Ally right here. Hi.

Carolyn Averill 1:30:15
So he was still there when Pope Benedict was elected. So I feel like that could have been a thing because if you were in Rome in that kind of capacity as a student, it’s a little bit easier to kind of meet the Pope. And then you went back while he was still the Holy Roman Pontiff. So I feel like that one could also be true. However, just like you guys talk about, it could be a distinction of quantity of visits with Benedict.

Ryan Freng 1:30:47
Yeah, so that’s a good one. The first one is you ruined you say Advent or Advent? You ruined an event with a tie back. That seems like too much, like too much of a real story to be a lie. Because it’s a very creative lie. If it is a lie. Unless it’s somebody you know, I don’t know. Your you. Your family’s from Wisconsin, I believe so. packers should be in the

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:31:16
sock city.

Ryan Freng 1:31:17
So yeah. So it’s not like your your family’s Vikings fans and your Packer tie.

Carolyn Averill 1:31:23
find it hard to see him in a tie up packers tie. Like it’s a little bit. It’s not very elegant. You know, it’s a little bit like, yeah, you know,

Ryan Freng 1:31:35
how do you ruin ruin Advent with a die? You’re like, you know what, screw it. We’re not having Christmas.

Carolyn Averill 1:31:43
I wonder if it was like a seminary story. Like he was in seminary. There was some kind of thing and he showed up in the Packers tie. And then like some superior was annoyed.

John Shoemaker 1:31:57
Annoyed enough to say you ruined Advent.

Ryan Freng 1:32:00
Yeah, Laura, you should throw your guests in there as well. Yeah, I don’t I don’t know what that means. Exactly. It could be at

Carolyn Averill 1:32:10
least the number of times that he met Pope Benedict.

Ryan Freng 1:32:12
Oh, sure. Yeah, I’m not alive, but also not fully true. That’s a good call. Yeah.

Carolyn Averill 1:32:21
Like, I want to, I want to believe that the first one is true, because I want to know how he ruined Advent. Yeah, yeah. So Laura said I’m gonna say pathetic, met him at least three times. I could see that being true. Like he has met him, you know, four times.

Ryan Freng 1:32:39
Yeah. It’s probably like a fanboy experience.

Carolyn Averill 1:32:44
I was this close. I was that close to being Pope Benedict and the canon of the Church of the St. Mary major Basilica. He’s like, well just follow in after us. Just come on in and you can be Pope Benedict, and I was so excited. And then he didn’t think about, oh, you’re not like one of us. They’re not gonna let you through. Like, you

Ryan Freng 1:33:03
are not like not a cleric.

Carolyn Averill 1:33:07
And so then he was very apologetic that he didn’t think about that in advance. And I was like, It’s okay. It’s not okay.

Ryan Freng 1:33:13
You probably had a skirt on though, which they would have let you through with, right. Because you have to wear a skirt to go in. No shorts.

Carolyn Averill 1:33:21
That yes, me slacks like a very formal capacity if you’re like the Queen of England. I was a 22 year old tourist who was sitting on the front

Ryan Freng 1:33:35
steps of my major, they probably wouldn’t have let you in if you just threw a collar on either.

Carolyn Averill 1:33:39
I am a lady Pope though pious.

John Shoemaker 1:33:43
Well, no.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:33:45
That’s one of our reserve D licks Carolyn,

Carolyn Averill 1:33:48
which is why I love bringing it up to you. Because it is your bread and butter

Ryan Freng 1:33:53
reserve. Do you licks is that like something that we get to waterboard people for? No, no. Remember,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:33:59
we are not doing that at the Inquisition

Ryan Freng 1:34:01
these days? Oh, sorry. Also, I was listening. There’s a great podcast, they have the Vatican, like what is a great just just to characterize it a little bit more, for some historical accuracy. Inquisition was also just kind of a term for the the legal body that would punish people who do wrong things. And so like, each government had their own, you know, local and national inquisitions. And this is on a podcast with Trent Horne. And I forget the guy from Catholic Answers. They’re talking about the historicity of it. And apparently people would speak heresy so that they would go to the Catholic Inquisition as as opposed to the actual I think it was like Spanish government, their Inquisition because it was more humane. So that’s, that’s something to think about and look up and You know, I’m sure there was excess like father said, the pendulum swings. However, you know, you look at that and there’s just more information to the story than Monty Python is gonna say Carolyn

Carolyn Averill 1:35:13
thing. So like if I, you know, as a lady Pope, if I continue to claim pi Pius the 11th high school graduate lady Pope, do I get like all expenses paid trip to Rome so that I can be like, tried,

Ryan Freng 1:35:26
and you get to hang out with Father’s Day,

John Shoemaker 1:35:29
during the heresies to get the free trip so that they can like go visit their family in Rome.

Carolyn Averill 1:35:35
I mean, don’t go that far. Like we don’t, presumption you don’t want to like sin, knowing who go to confession and get it forgiven, but like a step.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:35:44
Yeah. laws need to be interpreted strictly. So since you’ve not been or attempted ordination, Carolyn, even though you may call yourself a lady hope

Carolyn Averill 1:35:55
to get a rise out of you. That’s just Yeah.

John Shoemaker 1:35:58
It’s your distinction. That’s just a self delusion. It’s not a

Carolyn Averill 1:36:02
no, it’s not a self delusion. It’s an actual thing. The pious 11 Pope’s were the team, and then your teams. And instead of changing the name, they just went with lady in front of the name. It just so happened that pious was the Pope’s and it became a little awkward since the 60s. Yeah, a

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:36:23
lot of things have become awkward since the 60s but by the way you haven’t answered which was why

Ryan Freng 1:36:29
I was looking down below and we have a lot of chat. I’m just throwing these up real quick. So

John Shoemaker 1:36:36
I’m gonna go with the number I’m gonna go with number one. I’m gonna go with that I ruined if

Carolyn Averill 1:36:45
the screen starts talking back to you see a doctor.

John Shoemaker 1:36:48
You’re not good at maybe, that maybe somebody else said this to you?

Ryan Freng 1:36:56
Or somebody else ruined it. And you were there or they ruined it. Or it wasn’t a tile.

John Shoemaker 1:37:00
Yeah, it could be father Eric. That’s That’s my guess. Number one friends

Carolyn Averill 1:37:06
for a long time. He I could see wearing a pack or tie.

Ryan Freng 1:37:10
Let’s see. Number one. Is you said you were in Rwanda. Number two is you’ve seen met Pope Benedict. Three times. And number three was you regularly waterboard I forgot number three? Oh,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:37:24
no, no, no. What did I say for number three? Oh, it took me three days to get home. That was

Ryan Freng 1:37:34
Oh, that’s right. That’s right. I think we all are like yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, that sounds like a terrible thing. Yeah, so I’m gonna guess number one as well. So Carolyn, would you guess?

Carolyn Averill 1:37:48
I’m gonna say number one. Number one.

Ryan Freng 1:37:50
I think we’re all three.

John Shoemaker 1:37:51
Number one. I’m not responsible. If that’s not correct. You all.

Ryan Freng 1:37:55
It’s very good reasoning. It’s very good reasoning.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:37:59
Number one is is true.

Ryan Freng 1:38:02

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:38:05
so that’s exactly right. I was in seminary, I was in college seminary. And the rector reacted very adversely and said that I had ruined Advent. Not only me, but there were two other seminarians who wore it and we all sat to one another. And one of the seminarians had a let’s say, a very he thought it was extremely hilarious, which it really wasn’t. But anyway, he started laughing and then created a scene before Vespers of first advent and then we were told that I ruined ad we ruined

Ryan Freng 1:38:50
I love that so much.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:38:52
And and then we would sometimes be able to have a little a little wine in loco parentis that never appeared again, because we had ruined that.

Carolyn Averill 1:39:04
I think maybe he was having either a a bad day or be a power trip. See both?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:39:12
Not be mostly B but maybe also C. But anyway. No, so that was true. Though I was a I was a I believe a freshman in college seminary that year. So

Carolyn Averill 1:39:26
you know, I was the fact that I would have been toned favor because I love chaos. You know this. And I like being a little bit subversive, but like, just underneath what’s like actually subversive.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:39:40
So we weren’t required to wear a tie for Vespers. And so we did. And we can’t help that this seminarian had this weird thing. Number three is also true, which it took me three days it was the worst trip I’ve ever had. It was us air which is no longer in business. So, I needed to fly from Rome, to Philly, Philly to Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh to Madison. The first day the flight was canceled. We got there and they waited like three hours and they told us up The plane is broken flight is canceled. We had to come back the next day. So that was the first day. We had to stay at the airport hotel and get up at like 330 in the morning and go to the airport. Then we waited five hours, which then we got on the plane, but they gave me the double booked my ticket so they move on the plane. We get to Philadelphia, two hours late. There’s a big snowstorm. I get the last flight to Pittsburgh for the evening. But then I’ve missed the flight to Madison. So I I call my priest friend’s mother who lives in Pittsburgh, we were traveling together. I said I’m stuck at the airport. Can you pick me up? She said okay. Sure. Well, her because he lived in Pittsburgh, they bumped him off the flight completely said, I don’t care. I’m getting home tonight. I’ve already lost today. I’m going to rent a car. So he drove he rented a car and drove from Philly to Pittsburgh, which is six hours in the snow. So he gets back, though, by about 130. Well, I got in at 1230. And so he comes in the door and his mom says

Ryan Freng 1:41:22
oh my gosh,

John Shoemaker 1:41:24
what is he doing here?

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:41:27
Take me back the next day. And then they were ready to bump me because they had put me on standby. And I said, No, you’re not going to bump me I got I got forceful at that moment. You very kindly said I’m very sweet and kind. I was not kind and sweet at that moment. And I said, so anyway, I got back to Madison on the third day, kind of like the resurrection. On the third day. What is not true? I did not meet Pope Benedict three times. But Laura Zimmerman called it I met him only twice.

Ryan Freng 1:42:06
What a good one. That’s a good

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:42:07
one he was elected. But there were both times when I was studying canon law. So once with a big group with the North American college for our 50th anniversary. or, excuse me, yeah, no, it was the was the 100 and 50th anniversary of the North American college 2009 We met with the Pope. But I had I realized this last in 2019 that I have been in Rome for the 100 and 40th 150th and 100 and 60th anniversaries of the North.

Carolyn Averill 1:42:43
That’s a sign you gotta get out.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:42:48
One could make that conclusion and they would not be wrong. So anyway, sorry, I kept you long. But hey, do I win the coasters? Because I stumped you all.

Ryan Freng 1:43:01
Laura, finally guess did she guess number two, isn’t it? Yeah.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:43:08
You know, she kind of wavered a little bit.

Ryan Freng 1:43:10
It’s okay.

Carolyn Averill 1:43:12
verdict was

John Shoemaker 1:43:13
she were most solid one though, was I’m gonna say Pope Benedict dealio.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:43:20
Right. Left reasoning could be at least though see, not not alive, but also not fully true. And that that was the only way I could, you know, do the facial thing. So you wouldn’t tell?

Ryan Freng 1:43:32
That’s that sounds like just what a human would say I could do the facial thing so that you do not tell that I’m lying.

Carolyn Averill 1:43:40
Is this a conspiracy theory now? It’s really a robot. I like oh,

Ryan Freng 1:43:43
yeah, the CDF is aliens. I hope someone

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:43:50
is wind of this conversation. That’s the conclusion.

Ryan Freng 1:43:53
Yeah. I hope somebody in your office catches wind of this. And they’re like, What is going on? What are you doing in your free time?

Carolyn Averill 1:44:00
On that website? Is there like a Yelp sort of system where I can do a review of different officials?

Ryan Freng 1:44:06
Yeah, and like report this. That’s awesome. So we will

Carolyn Averill 1:44:11
we would, we would joke with that how we were going to like create a dossier of like, scandalous things to send to his superiors so that he would get sent home early. Like, yeah, that would work. Scandalous for the record.

John Shoemaker 1:44:24
Yeah. They’re just things like he doesn’t like ketchup or you know,

Ryan Freng 1:44:28
like, just hates marinara.

Carolyn Averill 1:44:31
likes eating a cream based gelato with a fruit based gelato, which is a cardinal sin, you’re Italian. So like,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:44:39
that would not be true though. That would be our two truths and a lie too.

Ryan Freng 1:44:46
This is also us reporting things so it’s not you lying it’s us lying so we can deal with those those consequences

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:44:52
in the forest and I’ll be upset because the rules you will

Ryan Freng 1:44:57
sense it. That’s it Yeah, awesome, well, we will send you lots of coasters and you can pass them out, we’re gonna send them to Laura as well. Or maybe I could just bring them to

Carolyn Averill 1:45:08
me and I will take care of both of them.

Ryan Freng 1:45:11
That’s amazing. I won’t even send them you’re at the office, you have them. So just grab a bunch, you can take care of that. So thanks to everyone for jumping in and hanging out with us today. Special thanks to Father Tate in Rome for taking time to hang out with us. This was awesome. The best part is, you know, it’s an hour 45. And I feel like I have so many more questions. And so we’re gonna have to get you on at least two or three more times to really get into the meat of things. But welcome, thank you so much for coming on club like,

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:45:46
wow, that’s that remains

Ryan Freng 1:45:48
to be seen. And you get a smoking jacket. At some point, if you get the five time or so yeah.

Carolyn Averill 1:45:54
Or maybe like a ticket to Rome. Maybe that should be the prize, or just the tickets

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:45:58
to Madison should be the prize for me

Ryan Freng 1:46:02
a ticket anywhere in the world. That’s that’s the five time so everyone’s gonna be in the four timers club because we’re not going to want to pay money to. Okay, the six timers club. And thank you, Carolyn, for joining us. And as always producing and helping and just being a positive, positive voice in the stream. We had somebody in YouTube shouting about vaccinations, unfortunately, got rid of them. That’s not what this is about. We’re not about shouting at each other.

Carolyn Averill 1:46:37
And it’s for funsies.

Ryan Freng 1:46:39
Oh, yeah, the vaccination game. Let’s go ahead and play. Now you. Yeah. Let’s see. Is there anything that you want to promote? Father, we shared that website, I can share that website up again, if people are interested.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:46:57
Yeah. That I mean, I think I think that’s a, it. It’s a very nice thing. There’s actually a little bit of history on there. And yeah, so I would just recommend, check that out. And the Vatican website actually has a lot of good and important and useful things on it. So if nothing else in your board, you can click on the different Pope’s pictures and it gives a little history and

Ryan Freng 1:47:22
so awesome, perfect. Yeah, check that out. It’s also in the chat up above, on Facebook, in YouTube. This is also a podcast too. So as I said at the beginning, I’m the Mon signori, or mon signore of the podcast. So check that out. It’s you know, one or two episodes every week, we’re, we’re putting the episodes from the beginning of COVID up because we just have a backlog we’re working through. So we’re like 50 episodes behind. It’s awesome. You can kind of catch up and be like, oh, man, at least it’s not 2020 anymore. So we have a lot of great discussions there. This will get turned into one as well. It’ll probably be in 2022. But check that out. Let’s backflip.com/ let’s backflip show, or we’re on Spotify, Apple, Google Stitcher. We’re now on Amazon. We’re on all the things. We’re there. There’s no excuse. Check it out. You’ll hear Carolyn on some of those you’ll hear and John and most of those and father Carolyn’s on some time. Except Yeah, not together. Just this time. This is a very special time. Check that out. Hit subscribe. Do all the things. John or Carolyn, do you guys got anything else for me today?

John Shoemaker 1:48:33
Just one thing.

Ryan Freng 1:48:34
Just one thing. What could be happening?

Carolyn Averill 1:48:38
Come in where I am.

Ryan Freng 1:48:40
I don’t know. You know, gave up the ghost.

Carolyn Averill 1:48:45
The Spanish Inquisition. But it is

Ryan Freng 1:48:49
nice. They are in the same space. I’m not. Oh, you know what? Just one more thing.

Carolyn Averill 1:48:59
To get bring a child in what is what’s going on?

John Shoemaker 1:49:01
It’s gonna be it’s gonna be like 20 minutes before Ryan gets here.

Ryan Freng 1:49:07
You guys have to wait 10 minutes for the joke to pay off.

Fr. Tait Schroeder 1:49:10
I got a phone call. I’m gonna have to hang up

Carolyn Averill 1:49:13
Monty Python clip on YouTube and just watch it while Ryan drives.

Ryan Freng 1:49:17
I love it. Awesome. Thanks again. Thanks, everyone for coming and hanging out. That’s what we got. We’ll see you next week.

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Ryan Freng
Owner and creative director. Shall we begin like David Copperfield? 'I am born...I grew up.' Wait, I’m running out of space? Ah crap, ooh, I’ve got it...