089 – Alexis Bakken
June 27, 2024
We’re bringing on Alexis Bakken, who started out as a production & editing intern and has recently found her self on our full-time team. What do bungee jumping, sky-diving, and shark tanks have to do with marketing? Join us with your favorite libation and maybe you’ll find out.
Topics in this episode:
- (00:02:25) What are we drinking?
- (00:04:19) Who is Alexis?
- (00:05:28) Why did Alexis major in journalism?
- (00:09:42) Would you switch majors for your senior year?
- (00:11:15) Class projects.
- (00:14:58) Dangerous video stunts.
- (00:17:47) Do you even know what a VHS is?
- (00:22:17) The Harry Potter girl.
- (00:30:29) How did we find Alexis? Or did she find us?
- (00:35:25) Going to college to network?
- (00:40:45) Connections can only get you so far.
- (00:41:42) What does Alexis like about being on the Backflip team?
- (00:46:08) Can a journalism degree help prepare someone for video production?
- (00:55:11) Editing a magazine.
- (00:57:13) What knowledge can you take into your classroom from working on a film set.
- (01:00:10) Bringing filmmakers with real set experience into the classroom.
- (01:07:00) AI tools.
- (01:13:24) Can you trust anything you see online especially with the advent of AI tools.
- (01:18:30) A misleading photo of Obama.
- (01:21:30) Salvador Dalí donkey falling.
- (01:25:20) Two truths and a lie.
Transcript
Ryan Freng:
hello and welcome back to the let’s backflip show happy hour. I’m ryan freng, co-creative director and co-founder here at backflip, and I’m just realizing that I could probably standardize that intro and just repeat it every time, as opposed to saying it every time. You know, just render a clip and reuse that clip. Man, I am not that much smarter than a monkey if I’m just now coming up with this idea. Anywho, this is episode 89 with Alexis Bakken, and this is great. This is probably a few months into her internship, or maybe actually just a little bit after that, but now she’s actually full-time. She’s graduated. She graduated in May of 2024, and she’s full-time with us. So this will be a really fun one to go back to and listen to her perspective on media and marketing and the industry and everything. So, without further ado, this is episode 89 with Alexis Bakken.
Ryan Freng:
Hello and welcome back to the let’s backflip show happy hour. For a second there I was like what show is this? We do so many, we don’t? Uh, I’m ryan. Uh, streaming once in a while. I have a whole different intro for when I do other other streaming stuff, so I’m like I was like stopping myself doing that other, the other intro. Uh, I’m co-creative director here at backflip, uh, joining me, as always. Oh, it’s little john. Hey, little john, let’s make you a little bigger.
John Shoemaker:
There we go yes, I am john, co-creative director, streaming here monday through friday podcasts, and uh like to keep it that way this is this, is it?
Ryan Freng:
uh, you’ve got a lot more facial hair for this one, though anyone who’s watching the video, you’re you just look like an older man. It’s happening. Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see what happens.
John Shoemaker:
I love it when I grow up, I want to be able to grow facial hair. I mean me too. So far not so much.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, it’s bad. You’re still like 100 times more than I could, even when I try, but that’s not why people are here. People are here to hang out with this person. Alexis, how’s it going?
Alexis Bakken:
Doing great. How are you guys?
Ryan Freng:
We’re great. Did you guys get libations?
Alexis Bakken:
I brought like a bunch of NAs, but I forgot to get my beer.
Ryan Freng:
Yes, I have some creamy root beer. Ooh, getting sloshed on Zevia oh yeah, zevia. I’m Zevia sloshed.
Alexis Bakken:
Not a sponsor.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, hashtag, not a sponsor.
John Shoemaker:
Some of you got john there to just like bring her thanks I love it.
Ryan Freng:
Did you get some drink? Are you talking to me?
John Shoemaker:
yeah, yes, okay, so sorry, yeah, I have in the.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh, look at that yeah.
John Shoemaker:
You make an awesome glass. It looks beautiful and it looks like this because there used to be a lot of bubbles. Oh, some, hawk Jones, carbon 4. Hawk Jones, and sponsored by the Rock Dwayne. Sponsored by the rock Dwayne.
Ryan Freng:
I love it. I, I’m going to, in the middle of this, go get one of those Lagunitas and A’s those are, those are so good, but I’ve always got the trustee Coca-Cola and some coffee. So we’re going to, we’re going to take right off, but all right. So on this show show we just kind of hang out and talk um with whoever we bring on often business people, um people in the industry, film um, production, you know just whoever is entertaining. And we’ve done it once before. But I hadn’t even thought of it and I was like, oh, you should have Alexis on. It’s like we should absolutely have Alexis on. So we’ve got Alexis Bakken on production and editing intern. But why don’t you give us a little bit more of your intro instead of me?
Alexis Bakken:
An intro yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Who are you?
Alexis Bakken:
I’m Alexis. Yes, I’m the production intern, editing intern here at Backflip. I started about two months ago maybe, or middle of May, so I’ve been here a little bit and it’s been wonderful. I am also a student at UW-Madison. I’m entering my senior year and I am majoring in film or no, majoring in journalism, with a certificate in cinema production. But yeah, and I tell people that I majored in journalism to learn that I don’t actually want to do it and so I got the certificate instead. And that’s why I’m here, because I love editing, filmmaking and all of that. So I do love writing, but not as much brought for broadcast or news, more for creative things.
Ryan Freng:
So yeah, to be clear, not the journalism side correct, that’s what it sounds yeah, yes, and did you, let’s see. So you wanted to get into journalism. Um, why, why journalism? Why did you decide to major in journalism? What kind of like led you to that path and the the film path?
Alexis Bakken:
well, I was the kind of kid who just wanted to be an actor in hollywood and direct films and do all that until I learned that it was kind of crazy out there. So, um, I was like, yeah, that’s not the most realistic and also I don’t want to move out of Wisconsin. So where am I going to go to college and what am I going to do? And I was really good at writing. I did a lot of creative writing. I was always loved by my teachers. They always very impressed by my writing. So during no big deal conferences?
Alexis Bakken:
yeah, no big deal. Just you know all that just kidding. Um, yeah, so during parent teacher conferences one year, um one of my teachers, my english teacher, said you should look into journalism because you’re a great writer, and that was the first time I ever thought about it. And then I got hooked up with an internship at a newspaper, which wasn’t great. I was editing obituaries and just like removing spaces, because a lot of people would write and then they would do like the triple spacing and I would have to go through it and delete all the extra spaces so I was like wow this isn’t fun.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, um. So that was my introduction to journalism, but then as I researched more, I realized that there’s a lot more to going out of the world, doing interviews, writing articles, um, yeah, doing all the production side of things, which I really liked. So it seems like a more realistic, attainable goal and path to take that could help me get into the whole, you know, production side of things camera work, things like that. So I never thought about going into film, just because I didn’t think there were any schools in Wisconsin that actually had a program for that. So I was like I’ll just do journalism because why not? And I’ll learn from there.
Alexis Bakken:
So I only applied to UW schools in Wisconsin that I knew had a journalism major and UW was one of those. So, yeah, and then I got into the journalism school and it was really cool and I really appreciate like how hard people work in the school and that’s why I’ve stayed in it. But and I also really love the whole like social part of it, like getting to meet people, getting to interview people and telling stories. That’s ultimately what I love so much about it telling people stories, which is also why I love video.
Ryan Freng:
That’s what we do. We’re storytellers.
Alexis Bakken:
Exactly. That’s why I love it.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, where did you grow up, did you say?
Alexis Bakken:
Little Chute Wisconsin. Little Chute where is that Shawnee Village?
Ryan Freng:
Not the big Chute yeah no, there’s a Grand Chute.
Alexis Bakken:
Pawnee Village, not the big Chute. No, there’s a Grand Chute, but Little Chute is up by Appleton in the Fox Valley area. We’re the tiny town that has a windmill. Yeah, it’s great.
Ryan Freng:
I love it.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, my band teacher moved. We had a band teacher in school and she left and she that’s. The only thing I know about little shoot is that that’s where she went what’s her name?
Alexis Bakken:
maybe I know her uh miss amy piter mrs bachan
John Shoemaker:
yep, my mom, no, it’s your mom I was a band kid, though she might have changed her name because I think she wanted to get away from us and didn’t like us.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh God.
Ryan Freng:
Band director protection network or something, yeah. So that’s kind of fun and I love that. You kind of got into it through what you thought you wanted to major in. And then you know you, you have a fourth year coming up. That 25% of your, your school expenses, um, probably just stay the course makes the most sense. But, like is there, could you like just switch majors? Does it make any sense, Like, or is it helpful to have, like, a journalism major?
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, I thought about it. I well, I originally wanted to go to UW because they had a journalism major, so I was like I’ll try that out, but also, if I don’t like it, there’s tons of other things at Madison, so that’ll be nice. And so I came in with journalism major and certificate in creative writing because I wanted to be an author and write, like you know, cool fantasy series and things like that. But then I took a creative writing class and really didn’t like it at all, because I realized that people in the industry of writing are very critical, which makes sense. Like people, you know, they had to read your stuff and a lot of content.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, yeah, and I didn’t like that because it was just a fun hobby I had of doing creative writing. And then all of a sudden, people were like actually you didn’t understand this character and why did you do this? And this kind of was weird. I didn’t understand this and I was like, well, this is annoying, I don’t want this. So I got rid of that and then looked into other options and thought that they had the cinema production certificate and upon reading it, I was like this is everything I love, like going out shooting films, editing um, learning how to use a camera, lighting, like everything which I had dabbled in a decent amount in high school, and I just didn’t think it was something that you could actually do like school projects.
Ryan Freng:
Were you just that nerdy.
Alexis Bakken:
Well, it kind of. I had a cinema production class that I took in high school. It was like digital media or something, but you could make your own films and things like that. So I did that. I always liked art classes too, but I just liked all creative things, and then I also would be the one who would always make little highlight reels for family on vacations and things like that. Um, I remember I had this little, you know the I don’t even know what they’re called, but just the tiny little cameras that you.
Ryan Freng:
That used to be all the rage um, like a point and shoot or a video camera like a point and shoot. Okay.
Alexis Bakken:
Just a normal standard, like digital camera you could buy. Okay, yeah, really cheap. I had one of those. It was pink and I would just bring it around and take a bunch of photos of things and take videos and things like that.
Alexis Bakken:
So I would make highlight reels for all of our family vacations and I was like this is fun, because I love music and just the idea of getting to put music together with video, and suddenly it turned into something that was inspirational and cool. I really like that. It was very satisfying, so yeah, so that was kind of the start and it was. I mean, I was a little nerdy, like I would do some of my own things.
Alexis Bakken:
Or I would go above and beyond and, like teachers, would be like okay, like you can choose your format of media that you want to do for this project. And a lot of people would just do a presentation like a Google presentation, and I would be like I’m going to make a full on video with B roll and everything. So that was. I guess that was kind of my nerdy side, but yeah, it may not surprise you to know too, that John and I also have very similar experiences in that
John Shoemaker:
regard. Well, that’s great. Before we get started, we had uh, the. The one that still blows my mind today is like there was a final project for well, there’s caveats to this, but we’ll just skip those. You might ask why was the final project for spanish for a diorama or anything other than just speaking a lot of spanish? I don’t know, but this final project for spanish was, uh, a diorama, and my group, we were like, hey, can we do a film instead? And they’re like, yeah, sure, so we made this, uh a spoof of like vh1s behind the band, um, but it was behind the tribe, oh wow, about, uh, the olmec civilization, and it was ridiculous and I can’t believe that that’s what we did for Spanish 4. Final, but it was probably amazing, though we did it was amazing, yeah.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, one of the videos that I made in high school was for Spanish 2. It was a get ready with me in Spanish, but I made a video of it and I still have it and it’s very cringy, I’m trying to think of what I did.
Ryan Freng:
You have to bring that at least into the office. Maybe we won’t put it out there online.
Alexis Bakken:
It’s just on my Google photos or whatever it’s saved.
Ryan Freng:
I have it. You could share it right now.
Alexis Bakken:
I could.
Ryan Freng:
I’m just saying we have a captive audience right now. I could, I’m not going to. I’m just saying you know we have a captive audience right now. Um, yeah, I, I think I had a lot of stuff that I did that was not for school too. Like I remember, uh like a music video, uh, for a song from a like shanty, uh canadian band, canadian like shanty or irish kind of music band called great Big Sea, their song Donkey Riding. We had an ATV and we made a music video out of it. I almost died because we were doing Star Wars action scenes, we were practicing them, rehearsing them, and I fell through in a hayloft, a trap door for the ladder, like I wasn’t paying attention.
Ryan Freng:
Step back into it. Luckily I like caught myself with my arms. This was like a I don’t know 20 foot drop or something. It was way up there. Then my buddy laughed at me and then got me out of there, but that was for a never or only partially filmed Star star wars fanfic wow maybe I can find that exactly bring out all the embarrassing stuff yeah yeah, we did a lot of, a lot of fight videos, which just involved a lot of like jumping off of things.
John Shoemaker:
Um, you know, jumped off the roof of many garages, oh, dang uh, which you know. Then you try to like do okay. So one of the first ones I ever did, I think, was in sixth grade. Um, I didn’t have, uh, an nle non-linear editor, I didn’t have like a editing software, and so we did our tricks all like in camera and uh, and then I would, I dubbed from that tape to the the tape was like a, you know, a high eight or something like that okay, but dubbed from that to a vhs tape to edit it together. So we like shot the scenes and then I would like you know, I didn’t have sophisticated equipment.
John Shoemaker:
It was just the diy version. But like, like, okay, hit, play and record, you know, and record that clip onto the master tape and then stop and then get the next clip that I wanted, including a like a, like a big jump, that’s, like, you know, higher than you could jump. That was done by like jumping off in reverse, and then I had to make it work.
John Shoemaker:
I had to like hold down the reverse button on the camera while recording it backwards oh wow that’s super fun a pie tech so I never had like a reel-to-reel machine, but I I went through the very uh diy process to make that work yeah, our first film was done on on vhs as well, so same same thing with two.
Ryan Freng:
You probably didn’t even grow up with vhs, uh I had vhs two tape decks. Do you have older siblings?
Alexis Bakken:
um one which he’s only a year and a half older. She probably has older parents yeah, well, no, I mean they’re not that old actually, but I mean we had VHS and we had all my Barbie movies were VHS, so I’d watch them and our Disney movies we still have them all. We had all the Star Wars VHS and, like Star Trek, you gotta keep those original Star Wars because the movies have changed. They’ve been re-edited and special effects put back in, they might be valuable now yeah, oh, they’re worth so much money.
Ryan Freng:
I have them. Yeah, let’s see, your parents are probably only a little bit older than John and I. Yeah, they’re like 47.
Alexis Bakken:
I think, my mom’s 47. My dad is 50.
Ryan Freng:
Okay, your parents are a little older.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah Well, I don’t know, I don’t know how old you guys are, I could guess.
Ryan Freng:
I know I think you guessed in the wrong direction, but like the idea because I was like, okay, you’re, you’re a senior, whatever. You’re like 21 if you have an older sibling, 22, so maybe like 42, 45, you know, was my guess. No, so they’re like three years older than I was guessing yeah.
John Shoemaker:
So then you just need to go you know, for your own illustration, Ryan you go back to when you had your last VHS or when you were using it, and then carry that 10 years forward and then be like any young family where you’re like well, we’ve got this, let’s just keep using this, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
It still works. I don’t know why we need a disc video drive or whatever dvd stands for, something like that, that’s crazy.
Alexis Bakken:
I was thinking about this how my generation is like the last generation to go to big family video and actually pick out movies and like go with your siblings and be like what do we want to watch? And you’re running up and down the aisle trying to find a movie you want and sometimes they’re out and you’re really sad.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Alexis Bakken:
Did you?
Ryan Freng:
guys do that a lot. I feel like I even have friends who maybe a little younger than me, who didn’t go to movie stores, and I’m just amazed. I’m like that’s what we did twice a week every.
Alexis Bakken:
Friday yeah, we do it all the time. We’d go to the library get books, we’d go to the family video down the street and pick out movies every Friday. Sometimes you could pick out PS2 games and you could rent those and we’d play on our PS2. And then Redbox came out. That was a big deal because suddenly you could just push some buttons and it would spit out a movie for you. So we had that, so we transitioned to that and then slowly things started to change.
Ryan Freng:
What about Netflix. Did you guys not hit Netflix in between?
Alexis Bakken:
We eventually got there. But we had bought so many movies because every holiday, every birthday, almost every Easter, we’d get whatever movies we really loved. So we just have closets of movies. And then my dad started like doing all these techie things and putting them, like you could upload the disc or whatever somehow I don’t know how, or onto the computer so we could watch them via this I don’t know streaming service you have probably, yeah, something like that. And then so we were able to watch some of the movies that we had online. But I remember the coolest thing is we got these portable movie players and we could take oh yeah movies on the road with like like a DVD player.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, yeah. So that’s how I first watched the.
Ryan Freng:
Lord of the Rings was on my little portable movie player On the tiniest screen. Yeah.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, and they’re like this big.
Ryan Freng:
It was amazing. Have you since seen them large?
John Shoemaker:
on a big screen.
Alexis Bakken:
Many times.
Ryan Freng:
Okay, yeah, I feel like and you might’ve thrown this out at another point over the last couple months, month and a half in our conversations but I feel like you really waved your nerd flag there, talking about wanting to write fantasy.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Lord of the Rings as well. What’s kind of your relationship with you know narrative fantasy or sci-fi, or you know like oh, is that what you like to read?
Alexis Bakken:
yeah, I mean, I was known as, like the harry potter girl in my in my youth, because I was so obsessed with it.
Alexis Bakken:
I just like I could quote it all the time. Um, I had all this random merch like my whole room well, a big section of my room is just harry potter themed. It’s all over random things. I have like a my own quidditch jersey, um, uh, like quidditch set, like a quaffle ball. I have that. We all have all my siblings and I have our own wands that we got um at olivander’s in the wizarding world, um, all sorts of things we just like. I mean, I say my sister is more of a nerd than I am, like she’s. She not only can quote all the movies and everything like that, but she also just has read the book so many times that she can just pull everything out. But, um, yeah, so we’re a big harry potter family. Um, I can’t even count how many times have you?
Ryan Freng:
stayed at the Harry Potter like a Harry Potter Airbnb.
Alexis Bakken:
No, I didn’t know that was a thing.
Ryan Freng:
Okay, I’ll pull it up and show it. I think I have a friend going to Florida this week or next week who’s staying at a Harry Potter Airbnb, Like that’s that’s how you know if you’re nerdy. I feel like everybody’s kind of nerdy in.
Alexis Bakken:
HP. But to be really nerdy you’ve got to be overdressed up. Have I overdressed up?
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh yeah, my brother has a Slytherin costume from the actual Wizarding World. He bought one of the Slytherin roles and everything. So I just had the one you could order, like the Gryffindor tie, I would put together the sweater, the collared shirt, the skirt, my wand and all that. I have some pictures of that. That would just be my default for Halloween costume.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, it’s. It’s kind of easy to pull off once you have it too. Let’s see, I I waited in line for I don’t know if it was the seventh book, the sixth book, maybe, maybe one of those I waited in line at, like Barnes and Noble. This is maybe in college, I think. So yeah, we’re pretty nerdy too. My girls have dressed up as harry potter. I have I’m trying to look, I have a picture or a video of claire, who’s here in the office right now. Uh, we’re at olivander’s and universal in the harry potter world and they choose her to pick a wand.
Alexis Bakken:
So then, yeah, I was also chosen yeah, there you go, and then they’re like crazy thing this is the perfect one.
Ryan Freng:
Good congratulations. Okay, now go over there, there’s a register, and then they’re like, yeah, it’s whatever. However, much, it is 500 yeah, exactly, and we bought it, you know, because you have, but that was a really fun experience.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, I’m a big Harry Potter nerd, but then I also just was a huge book nerd, so I was super into Harry Potter obviously, and then I moved on to Hunger Games. I loved those books and movies. Percy Jackson, lord of the Rings let’s see Literally any other big series besides Twilight.
Ryan Freng:
That was a no-go, I read those and I was just like I hate this, but I can’t stop it.
John Shoemaker:
Did you enjoy the movie adaptations of all of those. Are there some that are better done and some that you don’t like?
Alexis Bakken:
Percy Jackson sucks, I will say that the movie. Yeah, the movies, the books were so good.
Ryan Freng:
Well, they have a series coming out.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, I saw that. I hope it’s better Because I don’t know. I know Rick Friordan is, like, involved in the whole process of that. I don’t think he was very involved in the movie adaptations of it so yeah, so hopefully it’s a lot better. Plus, a show gives you so much time to get all the good details in, which is what they totally missed out in movies.
Ryan Freng:
So yeah, so to John’s question, harry Potter movies good ones, bad ones that were good adaptations.
Alexis Bakken:
Well, I just, being such a movie nerd, I just love, I just love the movies in general. Like I just think they’re great movies and I grew up with them, so I just they’re still great movies. So I’m able to kind of like separate that a little bit from the books themselves, like the books are awesome and wonderful and definitely better than the movies, but the movies are still pretty great. Well, the fifth one is really really great, but they left out a lot of key details, yeah, um, like full-on plot lines and everything. So I was like that’s interesting, but they still made a good movie.
Ryan Freng:
So yeah, and then you make the seventh movie into two and I was like I guess I don’t remember this much in the book it’s like we kind of went here, destroyed a horse. We kind of went here, then there was some angsty teaming and then you know we had our grand battle.
John Shoemaker:
Maybe I’m oversimplifying that whole turning books into a single book, into multiple movies. I know they’ve done it in many different things, but somebody’s got to figure that out because I’m like I think it was harry potter specifically.
John Shoemaker:
I remember sitting in that movie and then the first part of seven or whatever ended and I was like okay well, this is a movie where nothing happens, where I mean there’s no arc because, like you, the whole book has the beginning, climax and and ending, but like, if you cut that in half, then you’re just cutting somewhere in the middle of the build-up.
Ryan Freng:
Like right and spoilers. Uh, spider-man across the spider-verse did that. There was like two times and I was like, oh, if this was episodic, it would end here. And then the second time I was like, oh, if this is episodic it would end here. And then it was like this will continue in the next movie or whatever. Oh, come on right in the middle of that. That plot I think you need to. I think you need to do like a limited series or something like they’re doing with, uh, percy jackson. They’re doing with wheel of time. They’re doing a terrible job with the Wheel of Time one. I don’t know, did you read Robert Jordan? Did you read Wheel of Time?
Alexis Bakken:
I think so. Wheel of Time, it’s like 14 books Randall.
Ryan Freng:
Thor, he’s the Dragon Reborn. I’ve read them so many times. It was finished by Brandon Sanderson, Okay no, robert Jordan died.
Alexis Bakken:
I never read that.
Ryan Freng:
Okay, you, anderson. Okay, no, robert Jordan died. I never read that. Okay, you should read those if you want to get into depending on how fast you read a three-month to one-year book club with yourself.
Alexis Bakken:
I’m an extremely low reader.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, me too, I recommend.
Alexis Bakken:
Audible, maybe not.
Ryan Freng:
What about Brandon Sanderson?
Alexis Bakken:
oh, I haven’t heard of them.
Ryan Freng:
Alexis, uh, maybe after this conversation we’ll have another, or after this live stream we’ll have another conversation about that. You, you tell me more of what you like and I will pick the perfect Robert or Brandon Sanderson book for you to get in to that universe.
Alexis Bakken:
Sounds good, you have to do it.
John Shoemaker:
This is probably a typical Ryan thing, though, where he’ll like identify somebody as like oh, you’re a nerd in this. And then he’s like let me share. And then that person’s like oh, I don’t think I was at the level that you are talking about.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, we’ll have to see her nerdiness. So erin is on youtube, a friend of ours, a filmmaker. He’s got some actual questions that we could actually get to. Um, how did we find? Uh, alexis, alexis, how did you find us? How did we find you?
Alexis Bakken:
oh, this is actually a kind of crazy thing. So I worked at Camp Gray last summer, which is a Catholic summer camp, as their photographer, videographer, and it was great, it was wonderful, but towards the end I was like, yeah, I can see myself not doing this next summer.
Alexis Bakken:
Because a lot of people kind of stay there like all four years of college and then they get out and they’re like, what am I doing with my life? And so I wanted to, kind of, you know, start finding better opportunities, especially since I wanted to go into the production world. So I was just one day at the lunch table talking to one of my friends about what I want to do and I was like I would love to work for like a smaller company, one that does a lot of fun things like good energy production, has similar like um, I don’t know, just values yeah, everything like that, yeah um, and he was like, oh well, one of my friends worked for this company called backflip, I could hook you up and I was like, wow, that’s great, I didn’t even know they were a thing.
Alexis Bakken:
And then I looked you guys up and was super impressed by the website you know, who was this? Friend, his name ben sanders ben sanders?
Ryan Freng:
how is he connected? Does he know?
Alexis Bakken:
He was friends with Emily. Oh, he knew Emily.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, they were friends in college Um that’s awesome.
Alexis Bakken:
And then this is crazy Um later. So I still I was like, well, I have plenty of time, I will take my time reaching out. Um, so then I finished camp, went back to school doing all the things I do, and then I was talking to a different friend, one of the missionaries at St Paul’s, and he was telling me I was again telling him about all the things I want to do and he’s like, wow, I had a friend who worked for this company called Backlip, and I was like, oh my goodness, I heard about that place a month ago. I should definitely look into it. And then, literally that same week on Sunday, I bumped into him again after math and he was like, oh my goodness, that friend I was talking about she’s here and she was just hanging out with her husband in the lobby and we got introduced and she was like, oh, totally, I’ll connect you guys. So then got connected, had an interview and here I am. So it was great, it really worked out.
Ryan Freng:
I love that. It just took you know the right prompting several times and then you’re like, okay, I don’t think she’s going to go look this up. It’s like Providence, I don’t think she’s going to go look this up.
Alexis Bakken:
Why don’t I put the people right in front of her that she can talk to. Yeah, eventually I was going to reach out anyway.
Ryan Freng:
No, I totally was going to. Well, this happened in.
Alexis Bakken:
September when I was introduced to her in like September when, when I was introduced to her and originally I was gonna wait until October November ish to get the ball rolling because, I didn’t think people would be interested in interviewing at all, um.
Ryan Freng:
But then, yeah, I talked to Scott and he was like, oh yeah yeah we’re ready so yeah, recommendations from people at Stul’s, uh, or emily, or just people we know or are connected to.
Ryan Freng:
It’s amazing how I mean it makes sense.
Ryan Freng:
You see it in like shows, but then, like I, I feel like this is the first time not the first time, but like this is now, I realize it’s like reality in business is like who you know is really important because a recommendation goes such you know, such a important, because a recommendation goes such you know, such a long way.
Ryan Freng:
Like emily was, was fantastic and she worked here until her husband moved away and then she moved out there and then got a job where her husband was and she was maybe the first person aside from john and myself you can correct me, I’m wrong, I can’t remember any any like interns from saint paul’s, um, the first intern we got, and just a boss lady, you know, uh, what was it director, um board member for badger, catholic and just running various things and um hard worker. So then when it, when it came to a recommendation, uh, or a recommendation for you, and we get that from somebody like that that we trust, it’s like, oh my gosh, get them in here right away. We’ll try to figure out what the future holds and what we need. But that recommendation is so key, so important.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh yeah, I feel like I didn’t necessarily go to college to learn a bunch of stuff. I like came to college to network, which is what has got me all the opportunities I’ve been given people, people often find that in hindsight.
John Shoemaker:
You know we did ask that question. We probably shared it. You know plenty and tons on this podcast too. It’s just like the skills that you pick up, you know, in in this industry in college. Like, yeah, there’s some things that you learn and to their credit, I, you know I do still reference certain filmmakers that we studied. Like when we’re out on a shoe working on something, it’s like, oh, what if we did kind of a you know whatever ozu thing here? Um, tattoo iron man, yeah, tattoo iron man. Um, but yeah, like you said, there’s a lot of people that are just like, well, it’s more about the people that you meet and connections that you make, just being out in the world and, you know, forced to find your own way and meet people and talk about what you’re doing next. I mean that’s kind of the environment I’ve got bad news for everyone too.
Ryan Freng:
Uh, the supreme court just said no, we’re not going to pay your student loans off, so you better take care of them yourselves yeah stop school and just start working you know, I’ve thought about that many times all those empty promises those politicians have made?
John Shoemaker:
yes, they were empty.
Ryan Freng:
Wait turns out they’re empty. I love it John 2024. Yeah, and then I think there was two more people. What I love it? John 2024. Yeah, and then I think there’s two more people. Two random points Kelly I always forget her last name Trumbull, trumbull Kelly, trumbull Queen. And oh my gosh, I’m losing all the things in my brain. I’m just going to go to sleep, take a nap, I’ll be back in five. What the heck is his name? Camp Gray, and young guy, him Shane. Shane Reinbold.
Alexis Bakken:
He’s been on the podcast. Yeah, he’s a friend.
Ryan Freng:
I drank with him at my house and I can’t remember his name. Brain is not working.
Alexis Bakken:
So then there was even more contacts going on, maybe after I think you were like yeah, I’m gonna start an internship there yeah, yeah, I remember there are a ton of people after I mentioned, because, of course, the main question when you kind of hit close to the springtime, everyone’s like, what are you doing this summer? And I’d be like, oh, I’m working for a production company in Madison. And they’re like, oh, which one? And every time I mentioned Backflip they’re like, oh, my gosh, I know those guys. So tons of connections, the small world. And then I bumped into John, randomly being in the same community.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh, that’s right, I was talking to one of the moms and she was like, oh my gosh, I think john literally co-owns that place and I was like john yeah who’s that? And then he was. He was there and brought me over. He’s like that guy over there with the guitar yeah, I was like I think I’m working for your company.
John Shoemaker:
Well, and again like okay, so this is not, you know, more networking connections related to the entire industry and not just our company. Because I was going to make the joke that Ryan’s daughter, claire, mentioned somebody you know at lunch today. Like, oh yeah, these people, the neighbors or whatever and Ryan mentioned their last name at lunch today. Like oh yeah, these people, the neighbors or whatever and Ryan mentioned their last name. I was like yeah, I know them. She’s like oh, I didn’t know that you would know them. I’m like I know everybody you know, like all the yeah, the circle is, you know, very tight.
John Shoemaker:
Um, but as we’ve gone forward in business, I’ve learned I think we’ve learned over 15 years that like half the battle is just staying around long enough so that you’ve met enough people that you have network. It’s all these places because we’ve, we’ve done these, uh, these projects. You know interviews for the silver medal award winners, which is like this you know prestigious award for people after they’ve been in the industry and you know, done a lot of great work and done service and things like that. And we hear, we get to hear them tell these stories about how they started this agency or how they got into this place and that place and the stories sound very regular. They’re just like, oh yeah, well, I was in college, you know, with this person and then I moved down here.
John Shoemaker:
And then I got a call one day and they were like, hey, they’re opening up a new thing. I thought of you and you’d be great. So I moved back and yeah, we’ve known each other for a long time and you’re just like, oh okay, so that’s how you build these like these big, these businesses and these agencies and stuff. You just be around and I mean you got to be good at what you do, but like yeah, yeah, that’s a given though.
John Shoemaker:
Make the connections, and there you go.
Ryan Freng:
Well, I kind of wanted to comment on that too because, like, connections and references are so good and so important. However, you know, we also have kind of a barrier threshold of skill. Like, we want to see that people are going to do things well and be able to jive with the team well, and that’s eventually why you were hired. And, yeah, maybe talk a little bit about what interests you and what you’ve done so far, because now you’re editing one of these Wisconsin Indigenous Economic Development Council videos, you’re telling a story. I feel like you’ve got great timing. You’ve got and I’m trying to trying to also recall what you shared with us before we hired you, but you’ve got great timing with that work, with the music, with the cuts, with the, the feel and the emotion of the piece, um, which is, you know, like I said, ultimately why we were able to bring you on. So what, uh, I don’t know what over the last month and a half has kind of piqued your interest the most.
Alexis Bakken:
I think just the well one, just the environment is amazing. Um, I really love the smaller, the smaller field Like it’s. It’s a we’re a tight knit crew. There’s only what seven of us, six of us sorry, I can’t do math, but um, which is really awesome because you get to know everyone really really well, whereas even in my film classes it’s maybe 15 people, but you only really know you’re the people you’re working with, which in some classes was like three people and I’m like, wow, I was in some like this class all semester with these same 15 people and I still don’t know their names, you know, uh, so I just I love the um, how close everyone is, that there’s not that we are a small team, um, so that aside, looking at just the video part of it, I love the balance between the things.
Alexis Bakken:
I love that I get to go out on shoots and actually like be a part of that production process and um, and helping be a PA. But then I also love then getting to take all that footage and actually like creating something beautiful about it, um, and telling the story, because a lot of times when you’re, you know, actually like, sometimes when you just are given footage and then you’re just like, okay, edit it. It’s like, oh, this is interesting. I’m staring at this person and listening to their voice for hours and hours and hours, for weeks, you know, depending on the project, but I’ve never even met them. So I really love getting to do that as well, not just being an editor, um, because then I get to actually meet the people and, yeah, I get to know their personalities and what they would be, what they would really appreciate in a video, um. But then with editing, like especially this, this dog city video I’m doing, um, it’s just been really fun to. Yeah, I think what I love the most is how satisfying it is to take just a bunch of random footage and then make something beautiful about it. You know, um, and use your creativity and use your judgment to make it into a really cool video.
Alexis Bakken:
And I, like I said I just I love music. I have always been a big music person. So, getting to work with music and thinking about what beats and what part of this song is going to fit well with what she’s saying and what the point of the story and where is the, what are the most intense parts, what are the most emotional parts and how does this all fit together? And then, and then also getting to use b-roll and how can I best portray what she’s saying and make it more emotional by adding in footage, um, so I love that and um, and, and even before I started working here, I knew I wanted to go into more documentary style video editing and production.
Alexis Bakken:
Just because I love from what I’ve taken from journalism is just the love of interviewing people and getting to meet people, hear their stories and tell their stories. So I love doing those stories. When I get to write an article about someone’s life, it’s really rewarding. So I love getting to do that on the video side with meeting them, hearing their story, interviewing them and then bringing that and creating something beautiful out of it.
Ryan Freng:
I love what you’re saying there too and, uh, you know, I don’t know what the future holds, but if we are fortunate enough to hold on to you, uh, it sounds like kind of producerly, you know, and creative, because, like, that’s a lot of what john and I do, like john and I are basically the only two people in the company who can do that, um, and we have been able to bring on Max actually to help out with that as well, but he’s obviously an editor and a writer. So there’s a lot of other work that has to get done there as well. But that seems like a great skill set to be someone who interviews and kind of drives creative through the journalistic aspect of the documentary filmmaking.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, and that’s where I’ve seen a lot of things from the major and the certificate merged throughout my time at school, just the how trained we’ve been, because the journalism school at Madison is one of the best in the country, which I didn’t know going into it but it really is. We have really great professors and they know a lot and are able to teach us really well. So a lot of my instructors in my classes haven’t been actual professors. They’ve been people who are in the industry, who come in and teach class.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, that’s so valuable.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, so I had an instructor from she’s a writer at the Cap times and she taught my class this past semester and she just told us everything we needed to know about interviewing tips, how to get a good story, how to have empathy and, especially when you’re maybe interviewing something about a challenging topic, yeah, and like how to write things that are controversial. I had to write a number of more controversial stories um this past year and it was it was a good learning curve for me to learn how to write in a way that wasn’t gonna upset anyone. You know, like that was very um, unbiased, which I know is hard in the journalism world and and that’s yeah, a lot of people hate journalism because of that.
John Shoemaker:
That’s very, very interesting to hear that, like having come through the other side of that degree.
John Shoemaker:
So there’s the communication arts colon and then there’s two directions at UW for everyone watching who’s curious and the oh, I want to do film production.
John Shoemaker:
So I went, you know, film, radio, tv side, and then there’s a journalism side. I’m like I don’t want to be a newspaper reporter but hearing you talk now and some of the stories you’ve told too, I’m just like wow, there’s like a lot of really good stuff there that might have been better or would better prepare somebody for this industry that we’re in than the film radio, tv, because that was like communication arts, film studying tv, like how, how tv developed and programs and networks and things, and then um, radio as well, right, but the actual like that’s what we always say like well, I didn’t really like learn how to do any of this until I got out of school, you know, and like I learned a lot of it just on my first internship with another company where it was a small company and I got to work very closely with the director and the editor and I just was a sponge and just absorbed as much as possible and then learned a lot of it. You know, once we just learned by doing.
Ryan Freng:
But I love, I love that, yeah, that like what you’re acknowledging there. And I wonder, like, because the university has even a master’s program for film history maybe, and I feel like some of that came through in our like you’re saying we watched a lot of stuff and like that was a great perspective, but then you can get like your mfa in acting as well, um, so I feel like some of that the classes that I remember, you know, in terms of directing and stuff um, you know, might be more associated with that. But I wonder if it’s, if it makes more sense, you know, because, like, when we talk about college like john and I both went to college but thinking about the industry, I’m like just go work, you know, take a year off and go work and apprentice and you know you’ll learn a lot. You won’t make the same connections, but you’ll learn all the things you need to know.
Ryan Freng:
But I wonder if you know there’s also value if you can make it work and it’s not going to break the bank. It’s a great experience to go to college. And if you study something else, you know, like study journalism, if you still want to be a filmmaker, because that’ll teach you how to be a good documentarian or, yeah, study acting, because then that’s going to make you a, an actor’s director or something like that. I think Tarantino says like go study philosophy or math or something else that can teach you about the world, and then you’ll have stories to tell. Um, but that’s that’s really cool.
Ryan Freng:
I’d love to do maybe a lunch and learn where you could share some of your your favorite takeaways or, you know, just journalism yeah, I would love to teach us how to get the hot tip on the beat yeah, when we’ve done I mean, we’ve done this for so long and we’re always trying to learn and do better but you know, like going through this wine class with some friends, it’s like, oh, there’s, there’s a black fruit, you know, uh, nose on there. But you’re actually going to get like chocolate on the back of the tongue when you hear that. Uh, then you taste something and you’re like, oh, I think I can tell, and then you try something later and eventually you’re like, no, this is a black fruit, you know. Or, yeah, it’s, you know, chocolate on the back.
Ryan Freng:
Um, you learn how to call and identify things out, like, uh, john and I have different styles, but we’re both very good at getting kind of the story from our subject and, um, there’s lots of different ways to do it. But also hearing kind of the here’s the journalist perspective and some of the interesting things I saw, I think it just can help to put words, even if maybe we’ve never talked about, you know, our best techniques, like hearing that you’re like, yes, this is it, and I’m going to lean into that way that I do it, you know.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, it’s really, yeah, it’s really cool to just everything. All the different skills they teach you. Like, like you said, a lot of the times the the basic skills, like they don’t really teach you how to edit. They don’t really teach you how to use a camera or anything like that in journalism, they just kind of give you one and tell you to figure it out. Um, so I was definitely grateful to have that experience going into it so I can be the one to be like okay, guys, this is how you use premiere pro and that’s how I do this, because not a lot of people do. So I was grateful for that.
Alexis Bakken:
But it also just I’ve had to design so many websites because of my major and I’ve had to almost all of my classes. You’re working with a team, so you’re learning how to work with people who you normally wouldn’t, who might have very different opinions than you, and you’re learning how to. Yeah, just a lot of what journalism is is figuring out different multimedia options to tell a story. So I had to do a project where I created a website and then I had to make a video. Then I had to do a podcast and I had to write a series of articles and then I had to make infographics and then I had to create social media for all the one beat and yeah, it was very it was hard because it takes up a ton of your time, but it was very good for me to learn how to do all those things because it’s been so applicable in, I mean, in this industry. Obviously, like you’re making a film but you need to promote it and you need to learn how to do a marketing set of things.
Alexis Bakken:
So I’ve learned a ton on that front.
Ryan Freng:
Um, yeah, that’s amazing all the things you’re saying. It’s like business marketing 101 and things like we’ve had to learn through the years, right, because technology has changed. But now technology is at a point where, yeah, like we, we started off with video, but then we’re like, people are advertising terribly, they’re not sharing in the right way, so let’s help them do that, strategize that, but then they also need a website, you know, that can hold it. So all the things you just mentioned are things that we had to eventually realize and add to our suite of capabilities for the reasons you’re talking about.
Alexis Bakken:
So that’s really cool to see that yeah, and I realized that at first I was like well, surely people know how to do this already. Like it’s pretty straightforward to know how to use instagram. You know all of that, that kind of mindset. But then as I started to take up more opportunities and things like that, I realized that people don’t know how to do that and it is really valuable to have someone to be like hey, can you just help me with the posting every week on my Instagram?
Alexis Bakken:
can you help me just, you know, make little clips from my video? Or can you take some photos for marketing for me, you know, and they’ll like pay good money for that because they don’t know how to do it. And so all of these skills are really, really helpful. It’s another reason I picked up photography is because it’s such a valuable skill that a lot of people kind of shy away from because they’re like oh, I, I don’t know how to use those fancy cameras, but you do, so I’ll pay you to do it. And it’s like okay, sure, I don’t know how to use those fancy cameras, but you do, so I’ll pay you to do it. And it’s like, okay, sure, like, I can learn how to use the camera. And I’ve had tons of opportunities just within the past few months to do things just because I know how to use the camera.
Ryan Freng:
Nice.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, so it’s really it’s really cool to be able to have a lot of these skill sets. Really cool to be able to have a lot of these skill sets. And two, another thing about journalism that I’m really excited about is I was talking about all the different multimedia stuff that we do. Next year I’ll have I have the opportunity to take a class where we publish a magazine. So the whole class is the whole semester publish a magazine. So the whole class is um, the whole semester. You’re working together, um with your team, to produce this magazine.
Alexis Bakken:
So um and I’ll get to be the photographer for that, I think photographer, videographer I think they’ll choose later on, but and it’s very selective like I had to apply to get into this class and and the journalism school had to select. I think they chose like 15 people out of the 50 who applied, which is really crazy. But it’s such a cool opportunity because, like, not everyone can be like oh, I know how to produce a magazine. You know, it’s a thing that you don’t always have the opportunity to do, so that’s really cool and I wouldn’t get to do that if I wasn’t in the journalism school. So, yeah, yeah, the opportunity.
John Shoemaker:
The opportunity is really, you know, really awesome and cool we’re putting video of magazines now like uh, it’s like a Harry Potter kind of magazine I have seen that before.
Alexis Bakken:
Not that would be not regularly, but yeah no, yeah, it’s definitely for all the marketing side of things yeah, well, there, and there was a company who was doing the AR version of it.
Ryan Freng:
I think we looked at that a little while ago, john, but it was like you know, whether in their app or you scan it, and then you still hold your phone up to the magazine and something unfolds from the magazine. That’s like that’s crazy Harry Potter amazingness, yeah what. That just makes me think too. When the movie came out, it encouraged me more, inspired me more to want, you know, to do more filmmaking. Because I think, what was it? It was like early 2000s, yeah, 2000 was the first movie, the book was 1999.
Ryan Freng:
I think the first movie was 2001, maybe yeah, so I was still in like high school and like just you know, and I continued to light that fire.
Ryan Freng:
Um, I was gonna ask, now that you’ve been on a couple of our sets, uh, or maybe just the one, uh and on two yeah, I feel like you could put together some material and then we could give it to the school of like here’s additional things that you should learn, because we’re setting up like a C-stand, for instance and this is talking about radio, film and television and like you know the important skills like knowing how to set up a C-stand, how to put the arm and I think I showed you, you know, put it off to the right because of tension, and there was one of those things I don’t know if it was that one. I was like you guys know this right, and you’re like, oh, they did not teach us that. I was like, well, this is a critical.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, I think it depends on the instructor you have to like.
Alexis Bakken:
I only had one class that taught me how to use the c-stand and he was just kind of like this is how you set it up, these are the legs, this is how you do it. This is hard. I was like, okay, but it he didn’t tell us about, like oh, this is how you distribute the weight and all of this stuff, um which I’m a very visual learner, so I need someone to stand there and do it in front of me, and then I do it and he watched me and then critique me, um, but I think he definitely probably had content on our canvas page, because we had this whole canvas page that had tons of videos that we were required to watch every week on top of
Alexis Bakken:
all the other crazy stuff we were doing and I was like ain’t, no way I’m going to get to every single detail of this. So I’m sure there was more detail in there, but yeah, but I didn’t. I never saw anything like that. But he had a lot of good things a lot about lighting, a lot of tips about the camera and things like that. That is valuable to know.
Ryan Freng:
But again, I really like having someone like being in the same room with a person and doing it hands-on and not just like sitting in my room, like cranking through 20 videos in one night just because I need to get it done, you know yeah, well, and I think we’ve done it with luke before with like pas or grips, like put them through grips school like yeah, you know, here’s the half an hour where you learn kind of all the important things so people don’t lose an eye or something falls on their head. You know that type of thing which, uh, I would love. That’s how I would love to give back. They’re always like calling and like, hey, give us money. I’m like, no, don’t have money right now. They give you, but I would love it if they like reached out and like, hey, we’d love to work with you on some education stuff, so you know, you can help help our students get ahead. Like I think that’d be a really cool way to get back that’d be super valuable.
Alexis Bakken:
We haven’t had a ton of actual filmmakers come into our classes and show us things like. There have been talks occasionally, but it’s. It’s cooler to see someone in action. You know like this is what I do on a daily and let me show you how to do it. I think, that would be really valuable.
John Shoemaker:
There was a documentary film class that Ryan and I both took. We were in that class together in school and the woman I forget her name, but she was a documentary filmmaker and that class I think was the most valuable class. Yeah, I bet I took out of my four years there like that’s the one that I think I I kind of took the most out of like how to actually do this. And there was a particular um uh day lecture or whatever that I remember, where she brought in a guy like a camera operator that she worked with a lot and then they did like a mock, like interview where she’s sitting here and somebody’s sitting here and she’s like here’s how you do it with one camera, you know, and like he was like going back and forth behind her and behind the other mock interview person, shooting like over the shoulders, back and forth and then, and then she was like kind of pointing things out, like notice how you know he’s getting some of this, but notice how he’s also getting some like reaction shots. You know that are shots like when somebody’s not actually talking. And it was just like, like you said, alexis, just that that learn visual learning and learn by doing where you’re like seeing it be done and you’re like, oh, that makes a ton of sense.
John Shoemaker:
But it didn’t like solidify in my brain until I saw you doing it and and now I understand that like, okay, they’re interviewing each other for an hour, but I don’t need the full hour, I need 30 minutes, I need 10 minutes or whatever, and I will cut this up however I need and I need those cut points, and so I need reaction shots and I need, you know, bat both sides, I think sides. I think we maybe they maybe cut it up later or something, or maybe even on the on the spot, but, um, but that whole class was pretty fascinating and to that point she works in it. Um, you know, she was a documentary filmmaker, so a lot of cool things in that class yeah, that’s still a class.
Alexis Bakken:
I’ve had some classmates talk about that. Um, unfortunately is not offered in the time I have left, but um which is sad, but it sounds super cool and definitely.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of people be like it’s the best class I’ve ever taken. Um, because I took a cinematography class. That was just very, very intense. It was good, I learned a good amount, but it was just crazy. It was like a full-time gig and I didn’t have that time, um. And then there’s like an editing class and then a writing class um, I think those are the two I have left to take but which are probably going to be good. But um but obviously I know a lot about editing already.
Ryan Freng:
So it’s kind of one of those things where it’s like, okay, are they going to actually teach me things I don’t know already, or is it kind of be one of those classes where I’m just kind of going through the motions and just getting things well and I think you know kind of like my thought to have you share kind of your favorites from your communicate or your journalism class, of how to interview, right, just putting words to things, like there might be ways you do things or techniques that you just kind of do them intuitively, like you like how it looks, you like how it works, but then once you see it, it’s spelled out to you like like an l cut or a j cut or something like that. You’re like oh, that’s what it is. Now I can form that more and work more specifically and develop that more specifically.
Ryan Freng:
so I imagine it’ll be some of that where you’re like okay, the first third of class is, you know you sleep through, um, there’s hopefully some other interesting things in there, that kind of help you codify how you do things because I imagine by the end of the summer you’ll be pretty comfortable jumping in and editing, you know, and editing with annoying directors and stuff oh, yeah, oh no, the worst yeah, yeah, I’m excited for it.
Alexis Bakken:
I think, yeah, I think I’ll learn a. I’ll learn more about how I work and how, because a lot of the things that I realized in, like, in my cinematography class, we did some editing. Um, they wanted us to do things in a certain way that I wasn’t used to and was like, oh okay, so now I’m required to do it in this way, so I’m going to learn how to do it. Is that something that’s valuable for me to take into my day to day editing style, or is that something that I don’t deem as valuable?
Ryan Freng:
so that’s always good to learn about how other people do things well, yeah, and you can see kind of how we do things and by no means did we write a book on it or anything. So there’s likely things that we would do that might be less efficient than you would see and, like you know, just getting that exposure can be very helpful too. And, um, yeah, we’re always trying to to learn and be the best at everything that we do. You know that’s our expertise. But it’s so crazy now because, like the freaking editing programs are changing monthly, you know every few months, and it’s like now you have ai, now you have this night, and you have to like really research and read, and so that that learning, that collegial, uh interaction, is super useful because yeah like ai editing, to do an assembly.
Ryan Freng:
That might be great. We’ve only heard a little bit about it and it looks pretty great, but then somebody is going to have to explore it and you know, figure out how to do it, Cause there’s not yet anyone out there teaching and you know if, if you have to use it, you got to learn to teach yourself these things too.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. There’s always new things coming out that you kind of have to reteach yourself and it’s cool to be doing it for a good amount of time like definitely not as long as most people, but even still. Like just the testament to how quickly things change is like just a few years ago, you weren’t able to do very simple things and now all of a sudden they have all these AI things that are able to do it for you, like smooth cuts and things like that, and um, and different audio editing. It’s like. It’s crazy how suddenly it’s like wow, that just saved me like three hours of time just throwing on this filter.
John Shoemaker:
That’s great so yeah, the uh, I was gonna I was gonna say something about ai, and then I lost it right as I was about to they took our jabs.
Ryan Freng:
I don’t know. The thing about AI too is like, and with the industrialization of the world, you know there’s an adjustment to the work pool, but I feel like for us it’s just going to enable us to do much more interesting things faster, right, and to get to the part that really makes us unique. You know it’s like like if you’re an editor, like doing the assembly versus doing the fine, you know, like the fine is really where you can pull out the, the art, and so, yeah, if a tool can help you with the assembly, that’s great, because then you can get to the art, the thing that makes you unique or special, uh, or that you could do that you know a computer can’t do or is different than another person. So I’m super stoked for that. I know John kind of uses it and I’ve started using it this way because of John using it as a creative idea generator.
Ryan Freng:
Just throw something at it.
John Shoemaker:
Go ahead. Max is our local pro at it, though he’s got the-.
Ryan Freng:
Dude, he’s like best friends with the AI, I know. He writes like children’s storybooks. It’s amazing.
John Shoemaker:
So I remember what I was going to say. The changing softwares and technology, that’s a thing where maybe AI could help. The analogy I would make would be to like coding, like different coding languages come out and it’s like well, you maybe know the logic on how to like put something together, but there’s an.
John Shoemaker:
I was just talking to a friend of mine who does a lot of developing and coding in his job and he was saying, like, yeah, I’m using AI a lot now because there’s a certain project we’re working on and there’s this other language. And he’s like I don’t have time to like learn that, I’m not going to learn some other thing, so I’m having, uh, the AI write a lot for me and then I can like assemble it and and troubleshoot and things like that. But like I can have it like right in that language for me. Um, cause, yeah, things are changing.
John Shoemaker:
You know, you, you joked about Instagram, alexis, and like there was a time some years ago where I had a much more solid handle on several social media platforms, um, and now I I know I mean even the ones that I still use the the backend infrastructure has changed significantly and you’re just constantly like having to relearn, like okay, well, how do I run these ads? How do I make this marketing work? Like you have to keep changing work. Like you have to keep changing.
John Shoemaker:
So like you can’t you can’t just become like a master of something and just stay that anymore, like you have to keep learning how to do the new thing, um, and sometimes it’s very time consuming, and so I think some of it, you know, like to tie ai into it. You could be like, okay, you know, you know, structure this thing for me in the way that it needs to be for this platform. I know what I want to do, you know, and the details of how how it has to go technically don’t really matter. So just make that happen for me and I’ll do the other. You know, thinking on this project.
Ryan Freng:
What if, I mean, I love that, like as you’re describing it, you know how we interact with Chan GPT. Like here’s my video and here’s my script, right? Like so here’s my script outline. Or like you know, we want to start with this, hit these couple of points and then end with this, and then you could put some other descriptors in there as well, like, make sure to this subject, uh, a little bit more than this other. Like, essentially, you write like a coded video script, give it to the ai, the ai does your assembly, and then you can be like all right, now I can actually do some art on top of this. I like it meanwhile that’d be crazy.
Alexis Bakken:
It feels like cheating to me though yeah, yeah, but yeah I just I don’t know if I could like ethically get behind it. You know, I just I mean for efficiency’s sake if it was something that was just like I don’t know, helpful but, if it was changing things, I don’t know it’d be hard.
Ryan Freng:
My son was not changing any video or anything, it just creates the edit for you. Oh okay, right, yeah, oh, I see, yeah, like I wasn’t AI generating somebody saying something Like it’s actually somebody’s video that it cuts all together.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, that’s Black Mirror style right there. Yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, the other thing yeah because then it’s, then it’s just a tool like any other. It’s like you know your computer and now we can have a conversation here and you can actually type and you can save your notes, as opposed to, yeah, we’d have to have meetings and write on paper and keep all that track of that stuff, you know. So it’s, uh, a computer is not taking away our job, it’s just enhancing the way that we work. So that’s my pitch for the AI.
Alexis Bakken:
Doing well, he’s the hype man. That’s for AI. We sell it.
Ryan Freng:
You heard it here. Actually, that’s probably what Premiere or DaVinci has. One of them has AI assembly and I think, actually I think you can type a transcript or it’ll transcribe and then you can type in there and it will pull that stuff out for you.
John Shoemaker:
It’s good.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, it’s crazy AI to take a photo that is super, super grainy and then, like, denoise it to the like so it looks like a normal photo, which is really really interesting because it you do it and it takes like 20 minutes to like render through this photo. Um, but then the after, the product that you get afterwards, is insane. It looks like a perfectly lighted, beautiful image with no noise or anything, but then there is that kind of yeah, but then it kind of I don’t know the ethics behind it.
Alexis Bakken:
I heard from someone that it takes away your copyright or whatever on it. Yeah, if you use that.
Ryan Freng:
I mean, that kind of makes some sense, though, so I’m going to share this. This is from our friends Tim Olson and Brian. I’m like doxing them. I don’t know People know people. What the heck is Brian’s last name? Alberth? Alberth, thank you, do doxed. So these are our friends and they travel, and they’re actually doing a movie, a documentary, about the death of the video store.
Ryan Freng:
So, uh, this is cool though, this is like photoshop ai. Um, he took this photo and he’s like okay, uh, what is it? Remove the people behind it. Uh, number one, original pick. Number two remove guy in pink shirt ready guy in pink shirt gone. This is photoshop, ai. Uh, number three remove other people between us. So those two people and gone number four add a dog dog. Uh. Five remove strap on my shoulder strap gone right through there wow uh, let’s see and add a person in the far background.
Ryan Freng:
So now there’s another person there. And then number seven, requested by brian albert make hands holding a baby goat what oh my? God. So, like dude, you can’t trust anything you see, that’s insane. Yeah, no, I took out to tim olson and brian albert yeah, that’s crazy.
Alexis Bakken:
So I was in a.
John Shoemaker:
Oh, you can go well, we, we barely scratched the surface of where all of that is going and I don’t know what point I’m trying to make.
John Shoemaker:
So one of the things that I have been finding in the last few years and I wonder if this is true with you too and like journalism journalism is my perception of the world is shifting a lot, because I understand from the work that we do and from learning about journalism and we’re learning about marketing and stuff that, yes, it takes some work you were talking about. You know it’s a lot of work to make that website and the social and stuff like that, but the point is that you were able to do it as one person and spin up this whole thing. So when friends of mine and family, when they share something to me now and they’re like, well, check this out, I read this here, I read this, I saw this video or somebody sent me some information on it, I’m like who is that? What is that? What’s this website? What? Who are these people? I have no idea, anything like, do you understand?
Ryan Freng:
what is real? I’m like, do you?
John Shoemaker:
understand that we are able to do this, like I can spin up a website in an afternoon and I can write a whole bunch of stuff on it, you know, with facts. But like we’re really getting into this like place of reality, like place in time right now, where, like the ability of other people like we, I guess, I guess it’s more like a responsibility thing that I feel I’m like’m like man, I feel a heavy responsibility in marketing, uh, to be like, yeah, this is what we do, and like do people know that? Like they’re being marketed to in every aspect of their lives? And then you know they’re playing around with ai, photoshop and stuff like that.
Alexis Bakken:
I’m just like, yeah, now it’s even crazier because, yeah, so, yeah, you got any no, it’s really interesting because I took a documentary photography class this past semester and he we talked a lot about that because, um, we, our assignments were to go out and take photos and like, and each week would have a different theme that we were trying to capture and, um, a different style or photography.
Alexis Bakken:
You know, tactic strategy, whatever, um, and I remember one of them was cropping so even just not using Photoshop to take out anything, but just like cropping an image in or out, so very basic, but even that sometimes could be deemed as not documentary photography if you use that.
Alexis Bakken:
Because there was one photo I took that I was like, oh, this is my example of cropping and it was at a ice rink and I was trying to focus it on a skater, but there was like a little kid in the background, like, like literally on the side of the frame, like half cut out. I was like I just cropped her out just a little bit, um, and my professor was saying that that could kind of that could like whatever is changing. The meaning of the photo is no longer considered documentary photography because, um, and a big example of that is there was this um image that went viral of brock obama like at a explosion or something, or there’s a power plant that was smoking. I don’t remember what exactly the context was, but he was with a, an important government figure, and whoever was editing the photo for this magazine cut that person out and just had brock obama there. So it looks like he was isolated.
Alexis Bakken:
His head was down, he obviously was saddened by whatever was, whatever explosion or whatever was happening and um, but when you see the two side by side, they do like it does change the way you view the photo, because in the one with the two people, you’re like, oh, they’re kind of they’re meeting and they’re discussing this and I don’t know, kind of just so, it’s a, it’s a lot less, um, isolating as it is. When you look at just him, you’re like, wow, when you see that photo, it’s like he’s alone looking at this explosion. It’s dramatic, he’s sad about it. Wow, what a great president. You know, like there’s different feelings you get from the two different photos, um, just by cropping it so like, let alone taking people out, or you know, ai and goats into it, like that’s this like totally different ballpark.
Alexis Bakken:
And one of my, my professor too, he had two images side by side and he was like, try to guess which one is. Ai, like which one’s fake that I just typed in, give me a picture of a giraffe, um, and then he had a real picture of a giraffe and then a fake one and we had to try to guess what one was real and it was hard, like you, it was hard to find the real one, and it’s, I don’t know. It’s slightly concerning because I feel like people are already losing their grip on reality, and bringing this in is making things a lot more challenging yeah, it’s gonna be great and we could go down this rabbit hole forever.
Ryan Freng:
Who we have luke just posted. Uh, what is this? This is probably a relevant link. Oh, there you go. Thanks, luke is that producing the show over here.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, let me pull it up um yeah and while I pull it up, we will play the game, or we’re gonna play the game. I don’t know if you’re aware that we did this two truths and a lie. So you have to come up with three uh short things about yourself, and one of them is a lie, and we got to guess it. So this is a good time, if you haven’t already, to uh try to figure that out. While I share this, uh share this article over here. Here we go great.
Alexis Bakken:
Okay, it’s not an explosion.
Ryan Freng:
I forgot what he’s looking at, but there’s like an oil, well or something, behind him. Yeah, yeah, where is it there? It is, oh it was about an oil spill okay yep, yeah, catastrophic the damage beyond the spill.
John Shoemaker:
Oh.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, what ended up happening? I don’t know. Tldr, come on. The Guardian.
John Shoemaker:
All right, there was the other example that makes me think of in a documentary. I don’t know if it was that same class or if it was like some other film history class, but there was one where we were studying the concept of cinema verite, documentary. You know, real cinema, truthful cinema, verite comes from that truthful cinema. This verite comes from that, um, and so I’m pretty sure that it was salvador, salvador dali. Now he made the weird films and he makes the dripping clock paintings. Um, I don’t remember if he was the one who made this documentary or if there was a different documentarian, but it was also like South American. And there’s this one scene where there’s these like this donkey is like going up this, like cliff, and then it slips and it falls and like rolls down this cliff.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh gosh.
John Shoemaker:
And we watch the scene and then you know they stop or whatever. They’re like okay, so who you know? What do you notice about this uh scene? People have various observations and then the professor you know reminds everyone, points out to everyone like do you notice that there’s two camera angles? And we watch it again and like there’s two camera angles, and and then they’re like they didn’t have two cameras, they had one camera on the production of the donkey falling yeah, so you’re like so that means in this documentary, supposed to be just filming this thing.
John Shoemaker:
As it took place, they moved, reset the camera after this event, hauled that donkey back up there and rolled it back down oh, no, uh, yeah they’re like and and it was talking about like the lines, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
Hopefully it wasn’t a new donkey.
John Shoemaker:
Yeah, they’re talking about the lines between you know, is it still documentary? Like the event did take place but then they like added, you know, added another camera angle and like dragged it back up there to make it happen again. There’s even, there’s even study, you know, if you want to go to that extent, about similar to your photography, cropping, about, like even filming something, especially if you’re being seen as the camera operator, is affecting the, the story that’s unfolding. So that’s why the um, sort of like voyeur documentary. You know some of those documentary filmmakers who try to like be more hidden. We’re doing that just so that they could really capture a reality without affecting it in some way, like letting people, because then people act differently or things happen differently If the camera is known to be there.
Ryan Freng:
It’s so interesting.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Freng:
It’s always fun. I feel like we’re just getting into it, but we will do the two truths and a lie. You know what I forgot, because Luke is doing stuff and thank luke for kicking ass. I forgot to do this. Uh, it kind of came through glitchy it was kind of it was kind of glitchy. That was fun. I was scared for good. It was glitchy on my side. Yeah, my internet’s going crazy. We’re going to play two, three, four, five. Do you have the three things about yourself?
Alexis Bakken:
I do, you’re ready, let’s do it. All right, here we go. Okay, one time I was traveling up north, in Michigan, of all places, and I went ziplining off of the roof of a Starbucks. So that’s one. Another one is when I was camping out west one time I think it was in South Dakota I woke up in my tent and unzipped it and there was a buffalo there just hanging out and that was crazy. And then we proceeded to stay hidden.
Ryan Freng:
In your tent.
Alexis Bakken:
No, not in the tent but right outside. And then me and my family proceeded to hide in the camper for the remainder of the day, because when we opened the tent it wasn’t close enough that it was dangerous. So we ran into the camper because we thought that would be safer than a tent. So that’s another one. And then one time we went out to Virginia and I forgot what beach it was One of the beaches out there in Virginia. We were swimming in the ocean. It was my first time in the ocean and I got stung by a jellyfish on my neck and it was horrible. But yeah, that happened. So those are my three things.
Ryan Freng:
All right, let’s see we got. You were traveling up north in Michigan. You went ziplining off the roof of a Starbucks. Yeah, number one. Number two is when you’re camping out west. You were in South Dakota, buffalo outside tent, had to hide in a camper, ran into the camper, thought it was safer. One time you went out to Virginia, first time in the ocean, stung by a jellyfish on your neck.
Alexis Bakken:
Yep.
Ryan Freng:
Are you going to grill me like they?
Alexis Bakken:
do on Jimmy Fallon.
Ryan Freng:
A little yeah. How are you gonna grill me like they do on jimmy fallon? A little yeah.
John Shoemaker:
how you feeling john, could you tell were you looking at her eyes? I I couldn’t really tell um, but I have a good, I have a strong guess I think yeah, if you’re at home too, go ahead and guess.
Ryan Freng:
We’ll give you another 30 seconds, or something I don’t think you’re very good at lying well it’s a good story, you know, and it wasn’t, it wasn’t.
John Shoemaker:
Uh, sometimes there’s a big giveaway because somebody makes like a very short statement and then the other ones are stories or whatever, or um so yeah, I see some people like lean in different directions, but but yeah, I don’t, I don’t tend to see.
John Shoemaker:
I don’t intend to ask follow up questions either, cause I’m like I just feel like that makes it. I guess it’s part of the game, but to me the analysis of like how they said it the first time is all that matters. Otherwise it’s just like grilling somebody until they give up, and they can’t. But I think the Starbucks is a lie. Granted, we were getting just getting started, but it took you a little bit to like gather yourself and get comfortable telling that story, and then it could be that there’s like a partial truth that you zip lined, but it wasn’t off of a Starbucks.
John Shoemaker:
Now, up North Wisconsin, there’s a lot of quirky, weird things, and I don’t know if that’s the same in upper Michigan I don’t know if you said upper Michigan or if you said just Michigan, so there could be quirky things like that. But I’m thinking that that is the lie, because you could just be stealing somebody else’s story, but the other stories had enough detail and they seemed pretty effortless to tell and you had a emotional memory reaction to the jellyfish story. That’s my guess.
Ryan Freng:
We’ve got. Luke’s guess is number three, which is the jellyfish, and Max’s guess is number three, which is the jellyfish. And Max’s guess is number three. And I’m going to go with number three too, because I feel like changing jellyfish or, excuse me, changing neck to like leg makes more sense. Like you were stung in the leg or stung you know somewhere else, like I don’t know that I’ve ever really heard of anybody getting stung in the neck. That could be it, that could be a great lie, but I mean mean when you’re swimming and you’re up here, yeah, when you’re just swimming amongst jellyfish they can get you wherever they can, so I’m gonna go.
Ryan Freng:
I’m gonna go with number three with the other people. So john’s got number one, no one’s got number two. We believe you about buffaloes the buffalo yeah so now you can, you may reveal the lie reveal the lie.
Alexis Bakken:
The lie is drumroll um the jellyfish. I was not stunned by a jellyfish oh you weren’t. No, I was not I didn’t go swimming in the ocean, um, nice, and and I saw jellyfish, but I didn’t get stung. But yeah, I went ziplining off of the roof of a Starbucks in Upper Michigan. It’s still there. I looked it up the other day. It’s still a functioning zipline place. And then we ran into buffalo and south dakota.
Ryan Freng:
So yeah, the third one. I felt it too like you sold the heck out of that and I was like it wasn’t on your neck. Nobody gets stung in the neck it’s possible.
Alexis Bakken:
I actually heard a story of someone getting stung in the face, but I was like that might be a little too intense if I shared that, so I went with the neck if you, you double down on it, though you’re like, yeah, I got sun in the face, you’ve seen that scar that I have right.
Ryan Freng:
Yeah, that was from the jellyfish, and then we’re like, oh, did we miss that? See the scar? I do have a scar under my eyebrow.
Alexis Bakken:
Oh, do you, but you wouldn’t be able to see it.
Ryan Freng:
I do across your eyebrow. That gives you a little cut. That makes you look badass like that one singer.
Alexis Bakken:
Yeah, that would probably be really easy if someone had a very visible scar Whenever they shared two truths and a lie they could just talk about. Now I got my scar.
Ryan Freng:
But make up all these stories Fighting a guy with a knife. Alright, well, that’s what we got for today. We do kind of like to wrap it up. Keep it like an hour and a half. We’ll definitely do another one because I feel like we’re just starting to get into the fun stuff, especially the nerdy stuff, which I don’t get any. I’m not sponsored by any of these companies but I’m going to absolutely pitch them so that you read these books. Let’s see, what do we want to plug? We’ve got Steve Donovan, who’s actually a videographer and editor who teaches at Madison College. He’s coming on in a couple of weeks. And we’ve got Chelsea Bowers, who’s a marketing person there, who we’ve done so much creative work with at Madison College. So those are two upcoming episodes that we have. We’ve got a couple more on the docket. What else? Anything else we want to plug?
John Shoemaker:
You know it’s kind of a client project, but it’s also one of ours. The Dare to Believe series would be a cool thing to plug. You should go check it out. You can just search just Google Dare to Believe series. It’s on Facebook. It’s on YouTube. First episode we’re hoping it’s the first of many is out and it’s really great. Something that we did with the diocese here in Madison and we’re really proud of it. It’s pretty fun. Speaking of documentary filmmaking, yeah, it’s really cool.
Ryan Freng:
Here. I’ll throw it in chat for everyone too, so then you can click on it. All right, well, that’s what we got. Alexis, thanks so much for coming on, even though we told you, hey, you should. You got to come on, You’re an intern, you’re coming.
Alexis Bakken:
It was my honor. Happy to be here.
Ryan Freng:
Thanks John. Thanks everyone, aaron, max, people for hanging out. This is a podcast, so do check out. Uh, or is that? Let’s see? Let’s backflipcom slash, whatever, whatever let’s backflipcom show, or let’s backflip show or happy hour show. We are wherever podcasts are sold. That’s what we got. Thanks for hanging out. See you next time. Bye.
